Any recommendations on where I can get a civil war era rifle appraised?

[ForwardAssist]

Email these guys with your pics. They're about 10 miles from Cabelas in Hamburg, PA. Their store is virtually a museum.

http://dixonmuzzleloading.com/

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Good timing and some GREAT Civil War artifacts! It's quite valuable and there will be MANY experts at the Baltimore Show THIS WEEKEND............
http://www.BALTIMORESHOW.com

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Make sure you get several opinions/appraisals first and don't sell it until you KNOW what it's worth. Beware of people making offers and trying to buy it until you know for sure.
Also, any extra history or information(provenance) you can get about this particular gun the more it will be worth to a collector.

 

[Grampa G]

Make sure you get several opinions/appraisals first and don't sell it until you KNOW what it's worth. Beware of people making offers and trying to buy it until you know for sure.

That's for sure.
I took a .45 Schofield there one year to get some information and appraisals ranged from a couple hundred to couple thousand.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

Wow and I thought my persian bayo's rocked.............is the South rising?

 

[travistheone]

Make sure you get several opinions/appraisals first and don't sell it until you KNOW what it's worth. Beware of people making offers and trying to buy it until you know for sure.
Also, any extra history or information(provenance) you can get about this particular gun the more it will be worth to a collector.

This.

I got told 20 bucks, then 50, then 200 from duffys.

Some guys are either dishonest, or don't know.

 

[Bethesda John]

Try Don Stoops at Sharpsburg Arsenal on Main Street in Sharpsburg. It's a quite extensive Civil War shop and he should be able to help you out. (717) 762-1622 You'll also be a mile or so from Antietam NBP HQS so a ranger may be willing to help too.

 

[VTHokie7]

Make sure you get several opinions/appraisals first and don't sell it until you KNOW what it's worth. Beware of people making offers and trying to buy it until you know for sure.
Also, any extra history or information(provenance) you can get about this particular gun the more it will be worth to a collector.

I actually have no intension of selling the rifle or the bayonet. Both have been passed through my family for multiple generations since the war. I just want to get an appraisal so I can make sure both are adequately covered on my home owners insurance and get some more information. It sounds like this show would be the perfect place to do that. I appreciate you posting it. Does it make a difference in terms of quality whether you go Sat or Sun?

And I can't say this enough, THANK YOU to everyone that replied. Everybody had some great information that I will certainly be looking into. This forum is great, I am glad I stumbled across it! The Antique Show this weekend isn't too far from where I live, so that sounds like a perfect place to start!

 

[VTHokie7]

Looks like the original configuration of the M1841 US Percussion Rifle known as the Mississippi. Can you tell if it is .54 or .58? The orginial 1841 was not fitted for bayonet use and on your's it looks like there is no bayonet lug. During the Civil War, 1841's were frequently bored out from .54 to .58 and bayonet lugs added to the barrel, there is also a variation where the muzzle exterior is turned down to accept a bayonet ring. Rear sights were also upgraded from the simple block to one of several adjustable sights, looks like your's still has the block sight. If this were a Federal produced gun, there should be a deep stamping on the lock plate for either the Springfield or Harpers Ferry Armories and date. Sometimes there is a date on the barrel tang and there should be proof marks on the barrel consisting of a capitol P, a capitol V, and an eagle, proof marks are usually real well struck. I would expect to see a "U.S" stamped on the top of the butt plate.

The Mississippi was also one of the most copied rifles during the Civil War so it could be a Confederate copy or made by a company liked Whitney. There are many put together rifles from the period. It's impossible to tell without a hands on examination.

Cool rifles, I have two modern 1841 repros, one with a competion progressive rifled barrel and M1855 rear sight, the other is stock EuroArms out of the box.

Sorry I am not sure whether its .54 or .58. I am not really sure how to check that. The only markings that I can find anywhere on the rifle is U.S. with 1853 under it just behind the hammer on the lock plate. And then you're correct it is stamped with U.S. on the top of the butt plate just behind the screw holding it in place.

Also, upon further examination of the bayonet there is a letter R on on the piece just above the grip. And the letters P D L with a dotted circle around it. On the other side of the blade there is another engraving but I can't quite make it out. (EDIT on the bottom there is also an engraving, "387") I would've taken some closer pictures but as I grabbed my DSLR the battery was dead.

 

[BlackBart]

NEAT stuff, I bet one of the joints in Gettysburg could give you an idea.

 

[M1842]

Sorry I am not sure whether its .54 or .58. I am not really sure how to check that. The only markings that I can find anywhere on the rifle is U.S. with 1853 under it just behind the hammer on the lock plate. And then you're correct it is stamped with U.S. on the top of the butt plate just behind the screw holding it in place.

Also, upon further examination of the bayonet there is a letter R on on the piece just above the grip. And the letters P D L with a dotted circle around it. On the other side of the blade there is another engraving but I can't quite make it out. (EDIT on the bottom there is also an engraving, "387") I would've taken some closer pictures but as I grabbed my DSLR the battery was dead.

I can't help you much on the bayonet, that was a popular style during the mid 19th C, I have both French Chassepot and Danish bayonets in that Yataghan style. But I don't think that bayonet was ever mounted on the Mississippi you have.

The Mississippi rifle seems to have all the early features: block rear sight, ram rod with a brass end on it, and no bayonet lug, I'd expect it to still be in .54 caliber. If you have a micrometer, you could do a rough measurement at the muzzle. It looks to be in excellent shape. I saw one like it in an antique store in Hagerstown for $4500.

Good luck!

 

[pikeman]

Your M-1841 Rifle - My Opinions and Evaluation

I have collected civil war weaponry, including "Mississippi" (U.S. M-1841) rifles, for a number of years, and have about a dozen such in my collection.

I am not able to see any other photos other than the one you have posted here.

The firearm seems to have a blued lockplate and hammer, as well as barrel. "Mississippi Rifles" were usually browned - not blued. Coupled with the information you have provided, specifically that there seem to be no markings other than the date 1853, I believe that what you have is a stock U.S. M-1841 rifle which has been cleaned up and refinished over time - NOT a Confederate copy!

"Mississippi Rifle" lockplates WERE NOT BLUED! They were case hardened in all examples, regardless of who manufactured them. If your gun is indeed blued, it was probably heavily cleaned prior to the bluing process, resulting in the obliteration of some of the lock markings (including the maker's name). This preparation process on many different firearms, not just M-1841's, can, and usually does, result in rounding of sharp edges and removal of markings, especially if those markings happened to have been lightly struck during manufacture.

As for value, collectors will probably shy away from this weapon if it has been refinished and blued. It could have some useful parts which haven't been damaged in the refinishing process, and which can be "put back" to original looking condition. It is impossible to tell what the value of the gun was prior to being refinished, as the maker's name has been lost, and "original - as found" condition is not known. My personal opinion as to the value right now, in its present configuration, is somewhere between $1250-$1750. By comparison, if the gun was in "attic condition" (dirty, having some surface rust but no pitting, and from a more common maker, with all markings legible), it would be worth from $2000-$2500. When cleaned up (by one who knows what to do) it might well be worth another $500 or more.

As it stands, those who don't recognize the issues regarding the condition of this piece will remark as to how nice it looks. They are right that it looks nice, but it shouldn't look the way it does thus collector's value is low. It then becomes a shooter (Maybe!) if when reviewed by a gunsmith if is found to be "safe"! In any case, you can hang it on the wall and spin yarns around it's family history, if that makes you happy! Most people aren't collectors and will be just as thrilled to view a refinished and blued specimen as any other piece.

pikeman

I inherited a civil war era rifle (and bayonet) that looks identical to the Mississippi Rifle, but doesn't have any distinguishable markings except for "1853". Nobody in my family knows all the details on it, except for that it is from the Battle of Antietam and has been passed down for multiple generations. I am guessing its a confederate copy, but definitely would like to learn more and get it appraised for insurance purposes. I live in Northern Baltimore county but I am willing to travel a little bit if necessary.

Not my pictures but they look like this:

Thank you in advance for anybody that replies... I know the rules around here so i'll try to add my own pics later

 

[Knuc]

Contact John Zimmerman in Harpers Ferry Wv. He is a master gunsmith that deals with civil war era wepons only.

John G. Zimmerman
P.O. Box 1351
(1239 Washington Street)
Harpers Ferry, WV. 25425
304-535-2558

 

[Jim Keenan]

There should be markings on the lockplate and the normal VP and eaglehead on the barrel.

The Model 41 percussion rifle was made from 1846 to 1855. The original caliber was .54, but many were rebored to .58 after the adoption of the .58 caliber rifle-musket in 1855. It was called the "Mississippi Rifle" because it was used to good effect in the Mexican War by a Mississippi regiment under the command of Jefferson Davis, of whom more would be heard.

In addition to manufacture by Harpers Ferry and several contractors, copies were made in the CS and, somewhat more recently, in Italy. There have been both originals and faked up reproductions marked "Springfield Armory" but the Model 1841 was not made at Springfield.

Jim

 

[Jerry M]

Call Hanover Shooter Supplies 717-633-9589 the owner is Mike Sipes he can give you are idea of what it is worth. He specializes in Military firearms and is a civil war enthusiast. His shop is just over the MD/PA line in Hanover. He is also a member at the AGC. Tell him I sent you and he will charge you for the visit...just kidding.

Good luck

Jerry