any interest in long range instruction?

[learjet]

theres a chance the folks at Badlands Tactical might run a LR shooting class at the 1000+yd range in Mifflin PA this year if we can get enough folks to sign up. im gonna attend the class either way, but id rather do it here than have to travel to Oklahoma. im just curious if anyone else might be interested, i think we need appx 20 shooters/10 teams to make it practical for them to come out here.

ive got a few friends who have been through a bunch of their courses, and the instruction is top notch

heres a link to their website:

http://www.badlandstactical.net/home.htm

if anyones interested, post here, or pm if u prefer. no dates been set atm

thx!

lear

 

[Lambo]

I'm interested, where's Mifflin, PA. near ?

 

[learjet]

bout midway between state college and harrisburg. i dont have any real details yet, a buddy who has been to a bunch of these courses is tryin to get it together for the badlands guys. ill post any info asap

lear

 

[herr.baer]

I would be very interested. My concern would be cost.

 

[Lambo]

I would be very interested. My concern would be cost.

+1!

 

[Drmsparks]

OT-
Really good gun shop up that way I think(curts) I picked up my smith corona from him. good mix of mil surps and modern

 

[learjet]

from the website:

The cost of this course is $400.00 for 4 days of instruction, and students are provided with a sniper data book for their rifle.



The following is a MINIMUM equipment list for students desiring to attend this course:



Scoped Rifle with bipod

200 rounds of Match grade ammunition

spotting scope or Binoculars

Shooting Mat

Ear protection

Wet/Cold weather gear (Depending on the season)

we r very early in the planning stages atm, ill see if i can get any firmer info

thx guys

lear

 

[herr.baer]

WOW... 4 days.. that sounds like a good course.

 

[nebula8080]

100% would sign up. I've heard nothing but positive reviews on the badlands courses.

 

[Jas]

I would be interested.

 

[2SAM22]

I work some crazy hours, but if I could make it work I am interested.

 

[haoleboy]

Whats the minimum caliber rifle we are talking about? .308?

 

[E.Shell]

Whats the minimum caliber rifle we are talking about? .308?

The course is going to 1k, and there are any number of calibers that will work at that range, but will need to meet certain performance parameters to be successful and get the most of your tuition dollars: You'll need your rifle to shoot 1 moa or so (ideally better) at 100, be able to stay super-sonic to 1k, and your scope will need target-type turrets with enough reserve elevation from a 100 yard zero to dial back on at 1k.

If you're considering a .308, you'll want to shoot a Sierra 175 MK, Hornady 178 A-Max or equivalent to stay stable to 1k. The FGMM 168s (for example) shoot very well at modest ranges, but do not stay super-sonic to 1k from standard barrel lengths under most environmental conditions. Most hunting type loads/bullets will not remain stable, and those that do are typically not accurate enough and/or produce too much drop to be able to dial on.

With a .308 with a barrel between 20" and 26" and shooting factory ammo, I've seen best success with FGMM 175s, Hornady 178 A-Max and with Lapua 155 Scenars.

Again, there are MANY rifles that will work for this, and to see if your particular rifle will work, check the long range ballistics with the load you'd propose to use, and make sure that you are still super-sonic to that range, and that your scope's adjustment range will be sufficient to allow you to dial the required elevation.

If you don't have ballistic software, here is an online resource that allows you to plug in your parameters and run the calcs: http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/traj_basic/traj_basic.html

learjet, you may know a buddy of that shoots at Mifflin, Jason Baney. Jason & I shoot together from time to time, including a few sessions up near his house and at the Allegheny Sniper Challenge matches.

haole_boySS, check your PMs . . .

 

[learjet]

waitin on an email from the badlands folks, so they can communicate w us about this. all the guys i know who have attended these classes have shot 308 or 3006, and ddrive 175smks to 2550 fps or better. one friend took a bone stock walamrt huntin grade savage 06 out and did fine. i cant speak for the instructors, but i cant imagine taking this class without a tactical style scope w at least 40+ moa of elevation available IN THE 'UP' direction, otherwise u'd need to use holdoffs etc to get to 1k yd. im takin my m1a(1moa, barely) cause i want to, and w 175smks i need 39.5 moa to get to 1000yd. my pet 155 scenar load takes 34. most hunting scopes simply dont have this kind of adjustment available.

ES i get to mifflin from time to time, but dont really know anybody up there. we go on weekdays, and generally have the range to ourselves

btw, i know next to nothin bout this LR shhotin sport, im goin to the badlands class wherever i can this year to learn. i have picked up some of the basics from friends who have been out there, but i cant call wind for nothin....yet

more as i hear it

lear

 

[herr.baer]

Nice. I will keep an eye out for more info.

 

[bmdmc]

I'd love to attend this training, with a 50 BMG. $400 is a steal.

 

[longgunner]

Why not use a 308

 

[bmdmc]

Why not use a 308

Cause I don't have one. Unless a 1919 is allowed, in 308. I'll stick with the big guy. At 1K yards, speed means something as well as punch.

 

[longgunner]

Any true,long range instructor worth their salt would discourage the use of magnum or large cal. rifles in a beginner course,If it is a beginner course.

 

[E.Shell]

Any true,long range instructor worth their salt would discourage the use of magnum or large cal. rifles in a beginner course,If it is a beginner course.

I'd have to agree that heavier calibers may not be best, but only to a certain extent. For maximum benefit from a class like this, with regard to the unique conditions encountered at long range, the .308 or even a heavy bullet .223 would *make* the shooter learn his wind calls and range estimates as closely as possible. "Hard knocks" . . .LOL.

For a group class, the .50, in a class of it's own, IS a bit much and is going to make it tough on adjacent shooters, and the extended round count of a four day class may make the last days less than productive for one shooting a big boomer, and the lessened effect of wind on the more efficient calibers will serve to remove much potential benefit on learning to dope conditions.

That said, one beginning long range and taking a "beginner's class" may not necessarily be a new shooter altogether, and even the most effective long range rifles still need consideration for conditions. Nothing is immune, and even a 750 A-Max will drift 3 feet on a 10 mph crosswind.

The flip side is that, if it IS a breezy day and winds exceed 10 mph or so with a little switching tossed in, the guy that is just getting into long range will quickly become frustrated and possibly even turned off to long range shooting, as he fights and tries to understand the excessive drift of a 175 SMK at 2,800 in those sorts of conditions (10 mph = 9 moa = almost 8 feet). A switch in direction will be brutal, and even an unrecognized variability between 5 and 10 mph, quite common, gives seemingly random horizontal stringing in the order of 4 feet.

The .300 WinMag is very effective and popular for long range, and the same could be said for the .338 LM, which, in a well braked package like the AR-30, can a pussycat to shoot. My 115# daughter shoots a buddy's AR-30 regularly and quite effectively, and recoil is actually comparable to the average .308, or perhaps even a little less.

Bernie, which Barrett do you have?