Antique "Suicide Specials"

[Doctor_M]

Does anyone here know of a local gunsmith who will even fool with pre 1899 antique suicide specials (you know the kind... usually 7 shot .22s/l or 5 shot .32 rf). I have a few in my collection that need some attention but most gunsmiths won't even mess with them.

I know they are typically not worth fixing and I may be talking about 200-300 dollars or more to fix something that maybe is worth 150. Most people just wouldn't bother with something like that. But if it is in my collection, I want it functional. I have this weird disease where I can't stand to see a broken gun. It's like a stained glass window that's been hit by a rock... it just needs to be repaired.

So... given that I'm a hard headed individual with some discretionary income, is there anyone around who would even take on such a job? I've got the name of someone in Northern PA, but I would rather support a local gun smith if one can be found. Input (and ridicule) welcome on the issue. Thanks gang.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Good on ya for trying to keep a piece of firearms history in a safe and functioning manner.

I don't know the name of a smith, except for clandestine. Sorry I can't help you.

 

[BradMacc82]

I have the same illness, and last I talked to anyone - there's not many options for someone local that does work on the old top-breaks, simply because parts are almost non-existent.

If nothing else, wait for a bun buy-back - trade in some junkers.

 

[Bertfish]

I have a few pistols like that from my Grandpa which do not function either. Never really considered fixing them since I'm sure no parts are available but I suppose parts could be made

 

[BradMacc82]

I have a few pistols like that from my Grandpa which do not function either. Never really considered fixing them since I'm sure no parts are available but I suppose parts could be made

Parts can be made, but the cost to make and then fit them is going to be quite unadvisable.

How many people would realistically spend close to $600 on repairing a firearm that isn't intended to be used with smokeless powder rounds?


ETA: I have 2 top-breaks that I've been working on (why? I have no idea...), a Forehand & Wadsworth .38, and a H&A .38 (basically the same gun). Even with new parts the lock-up isn't confidence inspiring. I have rounds for both of them (which weren't easy to find), and even with new parts I'll likely never fire them by hand - they'll be set in a rest and fired remotely.

 

[smdub]

If really interested abuot the only long term solution is to make your own parts. Will be cheaper than a smith (in the long run) and you might learn something Though if you have NO mechanical ability then maybe thats not a good choice. I have a bunch of old machine tools that have needed repair. Companies are LONG gone or parts are LONG ago not supported. No other solution but to make them from scratch. Its not as hard as it looks. Machines can be reconditioned to better than new. Guns are FAR simpler machines. Esp antique ones

 

[Doctor_M]

Thanks... guess I have some self-educating to do (home gunsmithing 101). I'm not the handiest guy in the world, but I'm not a total zero either. Guess I will start small and see what happens.

The idea of turning in even a completely broken relic to a gun buy back turns my stomach, so I probably won't be doing that.

 

[303_enfield]

In two years the 3D printer/scanner will be your friend. They will be so cheap everybody will have one.

 

[Doctor_M]

I was actually just thinking about that.... with low pressure loads like these anemic RF ones, I'd bet that plastic parts would hold up for a while (heck they may even be better than the original high zinc crap that these guns were usually made from). Hummmm... I guess I'll have to make room near the reloading bench for the 3D printer :-)

 

[303_enfield]

Plastic? New 3D's print in steel alloy. In a few years they will be cheap as hell!

 

[oupa]

Might I direct you to the fact that virtually every reply from someone with such a gun contains something to the effect of "mine is broken to."

THAT is why nobody will work on them. These guns were beyond cheap in a period when liability claims were not an issue. The moniker "suicide special" comes not only from them being inexpensively available for nefarious purposes in their day, but that shooting the things was risking your own life even when they were new. They were essentially what we'd call "disposable" today, but of course the previous generations threw away very little. The fact THEY couldn't even get them fixed in a time when repair shops of one kind or another were everywhere, says a lot.

I can understand your desire to have them functional, but the reality is they're much safer as paperweights. I've told many people through the years who vow to safeguard some questionable gun that, that's all well and good, but they are not going to own it forever and the next person may not be so enlightened or diligent.

 

[Boom Boom]

The only local gunsmith I'm aware of who will even entertain working on one is Hafer's. With a huge caveat, understandably so, that the minimum disassembly/inspection fee before repairs begin is in the neighborhood of $150 to $200. Any replacement parts probably have to be custom made. Then you're hoping the gunsmith can get the gun back together and functional. Your bill could easily exceed $500 and still end up with a non-functional antique revolver, due to no fault of the gunsmith. The revolver might look worse than when you started if the frame pins get banged up trying to get them out. Suicide specials were fragile and failed quickly when they were brand new. More than 100 years later, they are a long lost cause in terms of being worth repairing.

Extremely common problems are broken flat springs, pawls, and cylinder stops. Forget about replacing pawls and stops unless you find a good donor gun. Flat springs can be custom made yourself with trial and error.

 

[Doctor_M]

Oupa and Boom Boom... you are both 100% correct, of course... but I'm a stubborn SOB and I like a challenge. THE QUEST CONTINUES....

 

[Boom Boom]

Fair enough. Two options:

Douglas Bates in VA: http://handgunrepairshop.com. Expect a several month backlog.

Monty Whitley in Waynesboro, PA: http://montywhitley.com. I know him personally. Don't know what kind of repair backlog he has.

 

[Doctor_M]

Thank you, Sir!

If worse comes to worse, this silly obsession I have with antique junk guns is going to push me to develop more of my own gun-smiting and or metal-work skills. Appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Boom Boom]

Please let me know how it works out. I have a few antique revolvers worth repairing that need some work. Other things in life always seem to take priority.

 

[oupa]

Your best option is to find some urban police agency having a "gun buy back," sell the lot of them and take your profits to the parking lot and buy a worthwhile old gun from someone intending to have it scrapped.

Do as you please but I cannot stress enough that most of these guns are best left non-working. Many had cast frames, sloppy tolerances and chambered for obsolete anemic powered cartridges. Someone, somewhere down the road sticks a modern round it it (because it fits!) and it becomes a grenade. Not good for the shooter and bystanders and not good for the shooting community at large.

PLEASE be careful what you wish for.

You mentioned expanding your own knowledge of gun workings. THAT is one thing they are good for. Take the thing apart. Learn what makes it work and tinker with it. You've nothing to lose but time.

 

[Doctor_M]

...PLEASE be careful what you wish for.
...

I understand what you are saying, my friend. Cheers.