Another piston vs Di question.

[pilot25]

And they are 3k a piece as opposed to $650 for the previous M4's. Gotta love the government!

There is currently an investigation regarding that matter. I'm sure it'll resolve nothing.

 

[jrumann59]

You bought the sales pitch.

Check and see what Larry shoots in his classes and what almost every gun trainer shoots too. I'll give you a hint, it isnt an external piston AR.

Buy what you want. There is no standard for external piston ARs, everyone does it differently. Let's hope whatever brand you chooose stays in production. The truth is Piston AR break bolts more frequently than D.I.

Read about battlefield Vegas and their piston AR's.

This... Due to "patents" and such it would be trying to fix a 1 off AK from some eastern bloc country to find out there is a variation or fitment that needs to be addressed. If you want piston I would say definitely go HK since its is unlikely they will disappear. LWRC makes good rifles but they have been rumored to be up for sale a few years back and any changes in ownership could have cascade effect int he future on their product and parts availability.

 

[pilot25]

I have been and still think about this DI vs Piston. I own a Sig 556 and it eats everything uses AR mags so it skewed my thinking. So much so I went out and bought a LWRC M6A2 upper and have have been happy with it. I still think about the upper not being mil spec and have contemplated getting a DI upper.

After reading this I emailed LWRC and they said their uppers are milspec and will fit on any milspec lower. I'm guessing I'm missing what you are referencing.

 

[clandestine]

After reading this I emailed LWRC and they said their uppers are milspec and will fit on any milspec lower. I'm guessing I'm missing what you are referencing.

Perhaps he means the D.I. LWRC Upper receiver parts are not cross compatible with other standard D.I. AR parts. The LWRC upper has a proprietary upper/rail that requires a $90 barrel nut tool to remove the barrel. The carrier has a different gas key design. If LWRC kicks over and you drop your LWRC carrier, the propriey gas/carrier key will have to be custom made. To top it off they still is NiB on the carriers.

A while ago, their rep disputed a post I made about my NiB findings, they said they didn't have tolerance issues with NiB that I was reporting. About 6 months later the guns rolling out of the factory were lacking NiB on the bolt. When asked here on MDS, the rep said they had QC issues with NiB.

 

[pilot25]

Perhaps he means the D.I. LWRC Upper receiver parts are not cross compatible with other standard D.I. AR parts. The LWRC upper has a proprietary upper/rail that requires a $90 barrel nut tool to remove the barrel. The carrier has a different gas key design. If LWRC kicks over and you drop your LWRC carrier, the propriey gas/carrier key will have to be custom made. To top it off they still is NiB on the carriers.

A while ago, their rep disputed a post I made about my NiB findings, they said they didn't have tolerance issues with NiB that I was reporting. About 6 months later the guns rolling out of the factory were lacking NiB on the bolt. When asked here on MDS, the rep said they had QC issues with NiB.

Thank you!!! This isn't written anywhere else in reviews. This leads me into another direction. Build or buy. You obviously are in the build your own camp. What would you recommend for those who aren't able to build their own for one reason or another? I'm sure this has been asked of you. You said HK for piston. What of di? Thousands of great choices out there its gets difficult to narrow it down and I've been looking at options, including building, for a long time. I always thought of buying a complete lower, registering it with the ATF to be an SBR, then matching it with a upper after approval. However, others have recommended against as the two pieces, "may not work well together."

My end goal is to have an SBR without waiting months for approval. I don't want a pistol because, sadly, I think that is going to go the way of the bump stock. It appears getting a lower, through the ATF, first is quicker with a form 1 and also the physical item isn't laying waste in some store's safe for months. The stupid thing is I have been looking, at options, for so long I could have just bought an SBR and would have had ATF approval by now.

 

[pilot25]

https://www.lwrci.com/p-875-lwrci-barrel-nut-wrench-9-tooth.aspx

Is this what you are talking about? Yikes....

 

[clandestine]

https://www.lwrci.com/p-875-lwrci-barrel-nut-wrench-9-tooth.aspx

Is this what you are talking about? Yikes....

Yep. I own one of those.

 

[clandestine]

Thank you!!! This isn't written anywhere else in reviews. This leads me into another direction. Build or buy. You obviously are in the build your own camp. What would you recommend for those who aren't able to build their own for one reason or another? I'm sure this has been asked of you. You said HK for piston. What of di? Thousands of great choices out there its gets difficult to narrow it down and I've been looking at options, including building, for a long time. I always thought of buying a complete lower, registering it with the ATF to be an SBR, then matching it with a upper after approval. However, others have recommended against as the two pieces, "may not work well together."

My end goal is to have an SBR without waiting months for approval. I don't want a pistol because, sadly, I think that is going to go the way of the bump stock. It appears getting a lower, through the ATF, first is quicker with a form 1 and also the physical item isn't laying waste in some store's safe for months. The stupid thing is I have been looking, at options, for so long I could have just bought an SBR and would have had ATF approval by now.

The build subject could go on for pages. There are many variables. Primary purpose of the gun and budget are 2 important factors.

Some factory guns are done really well, but can still be improved upon. Barrel fitting and feed ramps are 2 main sticking points for me.

If you are looking for a tight fit upper & lower look no further than Hodge. They are amazing, but hard to get.

Building a pistol and shooting it before doing a F1 is a smart plan if your not having it built by someone with lots of experience, because shooting it should prove out serious flaws. I have seen MANY people F1 a lower and then find out later it was an out of spec turd.

 

[pilot25]

The build subject could go on for pages. There are many variables. Primary purpose of the gun and budget are 2 important factors.

Some factory guns are done really well, but can still be improved upon. Barrel fitting and feed ramps are 2 main sticking points for me.

If you are looking for a tight fit upper & lower look no further than Hodge. They are amazing, but hard to get.

Building a pistol and shooting it before doing a F1 is a smart plan if your not having it built by someone with lots of experience, because shooting it should prove out serious flaws. I have seen MANY people F1 a lower and then find out later it was an out of spec turd.

Thank you for your input. I have spoken to people who have taken your classes and all say they learned much more than they thought possible. Something as putting some parts together isn't as simple as it appears. Especially if you want it to work properly every time.

If it weren't for your alumni I would have bought some pieces to slap together only to learn I wasted time and money.

Thanks again.

 

[clandestine]

Thank you for your input. I have spoken to people who have taken your classes and all say they learned much more than they thought possible. Something as putting some parts together isn't as simple as it appears. Especially if you want it to work properly every time.

If it weren't for your alumni I would have bought some pieces to slap together only to learn I wasted time and money.

Thanks again.

It makes me smile to know my students have helped you. It's why I do what I do.

I'm happy to help. Ill help however I can, regardless if you take a class from me.

If you can't afford a class but want help I can arrange a 1 on 1 build in my shop. I wouldnt be teaching but you would have the chance to watch what I do differently to builds.

 

[pilot25]

It makes me smile to know my students have helped you. It's why I do what I do.

I'm happy to help. Ill help however I can, regardless if you take a class from me.

If you can't afford a class but want help I can arrange a 1 on 1 build in my shop. I wouldnt be teaching but you would have the chance to watch what I do differently to builds.

Thank you very much for the offer. I'm very time limited unfortunately. One of these days I'm going to take your class.

 

[babalou]

my first AR15

Good general rundown on one of the better systems and pros/cons of pistons.

right before 10/1/13 i got the 16" PWS MK116 Mod1. I do love it.

 

[Mr.Blue]

This... Due to "patents" and such it would be trying to fix a 1 off AK from some eastern bloc country to find out there is a variation or fitment that needs to be addressed. If you want piston I would say definitely go HK since its is unlikely they will disappear. LWRC makes good rifles but they have been rumored to be up for sale a few years back and any changes in ownership could have cascade effect int he future on their product and parts availability.

I worry about my LWRC piston gun for the same reason. That said, after offering their DI series of rifles, I have to believe LWRC is on better footing.

On another note, not directed at your post, LWRC weapons were not used by that Vegas gun range. Therefore they cannot be lumped in with other Piston weapon systems that failed. From everything that I’ve read, seen, and experienced, the LWRC Piston guns run “forever”.

I have both piston and DI rifles and love them both. That said, if I could only keep one, it would be a DI, based on future parts availability.

 

[outrider58]

I'm not sure he actually understands how a DI bolt carrier works.

Until someone builds an AR piston gun where the piston and op-rod are part of the bolt carrier(as is with the AK), they will remain second class citizens. Even then, I feel the entire bolt would need to be redesigned.

 

[teratos]

Don’t the SEALs, who choose their own weapons, also run a piston gun? I may be wrong.

I have a buddy who is SF. He does underwater demolitions as well. His rifle of choice is a FAL.

 

[pilot25]

I worry about my LWRC piston gun for the same reason. That said, after offering their DI series of rifles, I have to believe LWRC is on better footing.

On another note, not directed at your post, LWRC weapons were not used by that Vegas gun range. Therefore they cannot be lumped in with other Piston weapon systems that failed. From everything that I’ve read, seen, and experienced, the LWRC Piston guns run “forever”.

I have both piston and DI rifles and love them both. That said, if I could only keep one, it would be a DI, based on future parts availability.

How is the recoil on your piston vs the DI. Everyone's DI I have tried is a noticable improvement.

 

[pilot25]

I'm not sure he actually understands how a DI bolt carrier works.



Until someone builds an AR piston gun where the piston and op-rod are part of the bolt carrier(as is with the AK), they will remain second class citizens. Even then, I feel the entire bolt would need to be redesigned.

I think that is the Grand Thumb channel? He seems knowledgeable but I can't get past he is usually the range with his helmet on with microphone. Maybe he is talking to the TRex kid and afraid to bump his head on his oversized backpack

I kid....I kid...

 

[clandestine]

I think that is the Grand Thumb channel? He seems knowledgeable but I can't get past he is usually the range with his helmet on with microphone. Maybe he is talking to the TRex kid and afraid to bump his head on his oversized backpack

I kid....I kid...

You think he is handsome. Dont lie.

I like him, but his reviews are always positive.

 

[outrider58]

I think that is the Grand Thumb channel? He seems knowledgeable but I can't get past he is usually the range with his helmet on with microphone. Maybe he is talking to the TRex kid and afraid to bump his head on his oversized backpack

I kid....I kid...

Lol

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Mr.Blue]

How is the recoil on your piston vs the DI. Everyone's DI I have tried is a noticable improvement.

Honestly, I don’t notice a difference. It’s a 5.56, so it’s not much either way. That said, I do have a comp on it.

The gun is slightly heavier than the DI’s, but for home defense, it’s not much of a concern for me.

I have yet to have ANY malfunctions with it. My other ARs (DI) have been reliable, but not as much as the piston LWRC.