Another CCW insurance thread

[Racinready300ex-2]

I read the last one, no one touched on this. I currently have USCCA but I'm considering dumping it. Below are a couple video's that got me thinking about it. I do see in the policy it doesn't cover crimes. I've dealt with insurance companies before and it's sometimes more obvious they're more concerned about the bottom line, not helping you. You only need the coverage if your charged with a crime, which they could then deny since crimes aren't covered. Then if you get off you could sue them, and they'll pay you what they should of paid you up front. But, if you take any kind of plea deal then you're admitting you've committed a crime and they don't have to cover you.

What are the thoughts here? The video's below discuss it in detail that I'm sure I'm leaving out. And I think they both point to something that covers you if you commit a crime. I think there is a provision there that you're not covered if you intentionally commit a crime which makes sense. A Maryland example might be you carry into a store that had a sign saying you couldn't. You defend yourself, now what?

Maybe these guys are blowing smoke, and it's total BS. But, it's concerning enough to me but I thought I'd get seek some input from this group before I make a decision.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

The one video didn't post right so I did it again in the follow up post.

 

[Sunrise]

Read this too: https://ccwsafe.com/terms-conditions/

Member Services & Coverage:​

In accordance with your selected plan and level of service, if you are a Covered Member and are in legal possession of your firearm or other legal weapon during a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident, CCW Safe will pay all the reasonable costs to defend Covered Member against criminal charges, civil suits, including pre-indictment investigation, and administrative claims against Covered Member’s permit arising out of the use of a legal firearm or other legal weapon during a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident.

Member services apply only to a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident that:

• Occurs during the Coverage Period;
• Takes place in the Covered Territory;
• Occurs in a location where the Covered Member may legally possess firearms or other legal weapons, including states where you are lawfully transporting a firearm under your permit or where you have reciprocity; or
• Occurs in the Covered Member’s residence or any place a Covered Member can legally be present and legally possess a firearm during the commission of a crime against the Covered Member, Covered Member’s family, or occupants of the location.

CCW Safe only provides services when a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident occurs at a location in which you are lawfully allowed to be present and allowed to possess a firearm which you are legally entitled to possess, and are lawfully acting in self-defense. CCW Safe will provide services in connection with civil, criminal, and administrative actions taken by a state, local, and/or federal government law enforcement or regulatory agency related to Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incidents, which include proceedings related to:

• Self-defense incidents occurring in any location that honors your concealed carry permit, with a legal firearm;
• Self-defense incidents occurring in any location that honors your permit(s) or license(s), or where a permit is not legally required;
• Self-defense incidents occurring in your “Residence Premises” during the commission of a crime against you, your family, or occupants of any place where you can legally possess a legal firearm; and
• Self-defense shooting or use of force occurs with any weapon or object or any legal firearm, even those weapons or objects outside the scope of your concealed carry permit,

according to selected plan benefits

............

Restrictions, Limitations, Notices and Exclusions:​

• Criminal Acts: CCW Safe will not provide the services if the use of force incident is an intentional criminal act (i.e. robbery) or where there is no admissible evidence of self-defense. CCW Safe will not provide the services for a firearms response, if in a place where it is a misdemeanor or felony to possess a firearm (although all other legal weapons shall be covered). Please see exception to “Gun Free Zone” incident in FAQs.
• Selection of Counsel: If, in response to a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident, CCW Safe provides services which include the selection and retention of counsel to represent a Covered Member, then the Covered Member expressly and unconditionally acknowledges that CCW Safe possesses the exclusive and ultimate authority to select counsel, retain counsel, manage litigation (subject to the applicable rules of professional conduct), select expert witnesses and other litigation support services, and retain expert witnesses and other litigation support services. Although a Covered Member may recommend or suggest counsel, a Covered Member expressly and unconditionally acknowledges the aforementioned exclusive and ultimate authority of CCW Safe.
• Cooperation: At all times, Covered Member must cooperate with CCW Safe in connection with any services provided to Covered Member, including, but not limited to, cooperation with any attorney assigned to assist Covered Member, attending all required court appearances, and authorizing any attorney assigned to assist Covered Member to communicate with CCW Safe regarding any information reasonably requested by CCW Safe. Covered Member must execute any Consent to Release Information, as required by any attorney assisting Covered Member pursuant to Plan benefits.
• Unintentional Discharge: CCW Safe will not provide the services if the incident is unintentional and considered an “Unintentional Discharge.” This includes the unintentional use of any other legal weapon or force.
• Substances That Alter Judgment: CCW Safe will not provide the services if, at the time of a use of force incident, you are impaired in public or private property not of your own, by the use of alcohol, controlled substances, or prescribed medication that impairs judgment, or in any location you are in violation of state law or regulation concerning alcohol and drug use while in the possession of a firearm. This restriction is specific to any public place or private property not of your own.
• Domestic Relationships: CCW Safe provides service for Covered Members in all Recognized Use of Force Self-Defense Incidents without regard to the relationship of the parties involved. CCW Safe does not cover incidents that are the result of a criminal act by the member or illegal activity.
• Invalid Permits and Disqualification: CCW Safe will not provide permit plan services if the member no longer holds a valid carry permit, fails to be eligible to carry a weapon without a permit, fails to meet the legal requirements of LEOSA, fails to provide and maintain accurate and truthful information on their CCW Safe member profile, becomes subject to a condition which would preclude or disqualify him/her from holding a valid concealed carry weapons permit, or are otherwise no longer in good standing with CCW Safe.
• Extreme Risk Protection Order: This order is also called Red Flag Law, and is covered through a Special Benefit under the permit plans (Ultimate, Defender, Protector, HR218 and other LE plans). CCW Safe will not provide benefits if a member chooses to use force against the agent commissioned by the legal court order or judge to confiscate weapons, as this would be an illegal act. CCW Safe will not provide services on any Extreme Risk Protection Order that was in place prior to a member joining , prior to the Special Benefit initiation date for the CCW plans, that does not follow a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident, or that was in place prior to January 12, 2021. CCW Safe will not provide services to existing Extreme Risk Protection Order or any legal requirements arising from an existing order, including but not limited to use of weapon incident, any other use of force, appeals, extensions, terminations, written challenges, renewals, or any of hearings stemming from an existing Extreme Risk Protection Order. CCW Safe will not provide services for any orders that are not considered “Extreme Risk Protection Orders” to include any other forms of court issued personal protection orders restraining any other activities, including but not limited to victim protective orders, personal restraining orders relating to harassment, stalking or domestic disputes.
• Outside Scope of Coverage: CCW Safe will not provide subscription benefits for any incident or event that is not a Recognized Use of Force Self-Defense Incident, which includes but not limited to: an arrest or administrative action that does not follow a Recognized Use of Force Self-Defense Incident, a TSA security violation involving a weapon, entering a property where it is unlawful to possess a firearm, use of a stolen or criminally altered firearm, or any incident occurring outside a member’s subscription period, or proceedings that follow any incident occurring prior to joining as a member. No funding, legal or Company resources shall be provided for any incident outside the scope of coverage.
• Vicious Animal Attacks: CCW Safe covers members defending their own life or another human life by a vicious animal actively attacking the same. The protection of animals is outside of coverage.
• Restricted States/Member Coverage and Purchase Plans: No incidents will be covered for any member within the state of New Jersey, even if the member is a resident of another state traveling through New Jersey. Memberships are not available to be sold in the state of New York, New Jersey, or Washington. Members carrying under the legal authority of LEOSA as Qualified Law Enforcement Officer or a Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officer will be covered for Recognized Self defense Incidents in the State of New York.
• Coverage For On-Duty Incidents Exclusion: CCW Safe will not provide the services for any on-duty incidents or extra-duty security incidents to include, but not limited to, police officers, private investigators, correction officers, security guards, security forces, church security teams (limited coverage), bond agents, private investigators, or military personnel, whether paid or volunteer. On-duty coverage shall be covered by the employing agency or the organization for whom the individual is working or volunteering. CCW Safe does not take the place of the employer or organization, who has a duty to defend the actions of its employee/agent officer. If a use of force incident is found to be outside the course and scope of employment, then CCW Safe would perform a coverage analysis to determine what coverage, if any, applies. CCW Safe will not provide the services for a Covered Member in violation of any restriction written in a plan description.

.....

FAQ - CCW Safe

ccwsafe.com

Am I covered in a "gun free zone"?

A general rule is that we only cover you if you are carrying any place where it is legal to carry a concealed firearm or legal to carry open without a license in public, or on-premises where possession of a firearm is not illegal or prohibited by the property owner where it carries no unlawful charge after leaving when being asked to do so.

The exact definition of the term “gun free zone” and the property owner rights that concern locations displaying a “No Guns” sign can change from state to state depending on the varying laws of each state. Our coverage requires you to follow the law where you carry.

In the case of “No Gun” or similar signage we suggest you avoid challenging the business that has one, as this could possibly put you in a position to be charged without being involved in a use of force incident, and that would be outside of your coverage and the consequences and financial responsibility of that arrest would be on you.

If you are in a state which allows any business to place “No Gun” or similar signage at the entrance but also requires a representative of that business to verbally tell you to leave the premises or be arrested for trespassing, you will be covered ONLY if you are not told to leave or If you agree to leave and have to defend your life or that of another, as you are leaving. If you are told to leave and refuse, then you are accepting the trespassing charge and you will not be covered if an incident occurs following your refusal to leave.

CCW Safe is not an organization to be used for political or ideological challenges to the laws in your state.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

Read this too: https://ccwsafe.com/terms-conditions/

Member Services & Coverage:​

In accordance with your selected plan and level of service, if you are a Covered Member and are in legal possession of your firearm or other legal weapon during a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident, CCW Safe will pay all the reasonable costs to defend Covered Member against criminal charges, civil suits, including pre-indictment investigation, and administrative claims against Covered Member’s permit arising out of the use of a legal firearm or other legal weapon during a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident.

Member services apply only to a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident that:

• Occurs during the Coverage Period;
• Takes place in the Covered Territory;
• Occurs in a location where the Covered Member may legally possess firearms or other legal weapons, including states where you are lawfully transporting a firearm under your permit or where you have reciprocity; or
• Occurs in the Covered Member’s residence or any place a Covered Member can legally be present and legally possess a firearm during the commission of a crime against the Covered Member, Covered Member’s family, or occupants of the location.

CCW Safe only provides services when a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident occurs at a location in which you are lawfully allowed to be present and allowed to possess a firearm which you are legally entitled to possess, and are lawfully acting in self-defense. CCW Safe will provide services in connection with civil, criminal, and administrative actions taken by a state, local, and/or federal government law enforcement or regulatory agency related to Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incidents, which include proceedings related to:

• Self-defense incidents occurring in any location that honors your concealed carry permit, with a legal firearm;
• Self-defense incidents occurring in any location that honors your permit(s) or license(s), or where a permit is not legally required;
• Self-defense incidents occurring in your “Residence Premises” during the commission of a crime against you, your family, or occupants of any place where you can legally possess a legal firearm; and
• Self-defense shooting or use of force occurs with any weapon or object or any legal firearm, even those weapons or objects outside the scope of your concealed carry permit,

according to selected plan benefits

............

Restrictions, Limitations, Notices and Exclusions:​

• Criminal Acts: CCW Safe will not provide the services if the use of force incident is an intentional criminal act (i.e. robbery) or where there is no admissible evidence of self-defense. CCW Safe will not provide the services for a firearms response, if in a place where it is a misdemeanor or felony to possess a firearm (although all other legal weapons shall be covered). Please see exception to “Gun Free Zone” incident in FAQs.
• Selection of Counsel: If, in response to a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident, CCW Safe provides services which include the selection and retention of counsel to represent a Covered Member, then the Covered Member expressly and unconditionally acknowledges that CCW Safe possesses the exclusive and ultimate authority to select counsel, retain counsel, manage litigation (subject to the applicable rules of professional conduct), select expert witnesses and other litigation support services, and retain expert witnesses and other litigation support services. Although a Covered Member may recommend or suggest counsel, a Covered Member expressly and unconditionally acknowledges the aforementioned exclusive and ultimate authority of CCW Safe.
• Cooperation: At all times, Covered Member must cooperate with CCW Safe in connection with any services provided to Covered Member, including, but not limited to, cooperation with any attorney assigned to assist Covered Member, attending all required court appearances, and authorizing any attorney assigned to assist Covered Member to communicate with CCW Safe regarding any information reasonably requested by CCW Safe. Covered Member must execute any Consent to Release Information, as required by any attorney assisting Covered Member pursuant to Plan benefits.
• Unintentional Discharge: CCW Safe will not provide the services if the incident is unintentional and considered an “Unintentional Discharge.” This includes the unintentional use of any other legal weapon or force.
• Substances That Alter Judgment: CCW Safe will not provide the services if, at the time of a use of force incident, you are impaired in public or private property not of your own, by the use of alcohol, controlled substances, or prescribed medication that impairs judgment, or in any location you are in violation of state law or regulation concerning alcohol and drug use while in the possession of a firearm. This restriction is specific to any public place or private property not of your own.
• Domestic Relationships: CCW Safe provides service for Covered Members in all Recognized Use of Force Self-Defense Incidents without regard to the relationship of the parties involved. CCW Safe does not cover incidents that are the result of a criminal act by the member or illegal activity.
• Invalid Permits and Disqualification: CCW Safe will not provide permit plan services if the member no longer holds a valid carry permit, fails to be eligible to carry a weapon without a permit, fails to meet the legal requirements of LEOSA, fails to provide and maintain accurate and truthful information on their CCW Safe member profile, becomes subject to a condition which would preclude or disqualify him/her from holding a valid concealed carry weapons permit, or are otherwise no longer in good standing with CCW Safe.
• Extreme Risk Protection Order: This order is also called Red Flag Law, and is covered through a Special Benefit under the permit plans (Ultimate, Defender, Protector, HR218 and other LE plans). CCW Safe will not provide benefits if a member chooses to use force against the agent commissioned by the legal court order or judge to confiscate weapons, as this would be an illegal act. CCW Safe will not provide services on any Extreme Risk Protection Order that was in place prior to a member joining , prior to the Special Benefit initiation date for the CCW plans, that does not follow a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident, or that was in place prior to January 12, 2021. CCW Safe will not provide services to existing Extreme Risk Protection Order or any legal requirements arising from an existing order, including but not limited to use of weapon incident, any other use of force, appeals, extensions, terminations, written challenges, renewals, or any of hearings stemming from an existing Extreme Risk Protection Order. CCW Safe will not provide services for any orders that are not considered “Extreme Risk Protection Orders” to include any other forms of court issued personal protection orders restraining any other activities, including but not limited to victim protective orders, personal restraining orders relating to harassment, stalking or domestic disputes.
• Outside Scope of Coverage: CCW Safe will not provide subscription benefits for any incident or event that is not a Recognized Use of Force Self-Defense Incident, which includes but not limited to: an arrest or administrative action that does not follow a Recognized Use of Force Self-Defense Incident, a TSA security violation involving a weapon, entering a property where it is unlawful to possess a firearm, use of a stolen or criminally altered firearm, or any incident occurring outside a member’s subscription period, or proceedings that follow any incident occurring prior to joining as a member. No funding, legal or Company resources shall be provided for any incident outside the scope of coverage.
• Vicious Animal Attacks: CCW Safe covers members defending their own life or another human life by a vicious animal actively attacking the same. The protection of animals is outside of coverage.
• Restricted States/Member Coverage and Purchase Plans: No incidents will be covered for any member within the state of New Jersey, even if the member is a resident of another state traveling through New Jersey. Memberships are not available to be sold in the state of New York, New Jersey, or Washington. Members carrying under the legal authority of LEOSA as Qualified Law Enforcement Officer or a Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officer will be covered for Recognized Self defense Incidents in the State of New York.
• Coverage For On-Duty Incidents Exclusion: CCW Safe will not provide the services for any on-duty incidents or extra-duty security incidents to include, but not limited to, police officers, private investigators, correction officers, security guards, security forces, church security teams (limited coverage), bond agents, private investigators, or military personnel, whether paid or volunteer. On-duty coverage shall be covered by the employing agency or the organization for whom the individual is working or volunteering. CCW Safe does not take the place of the employer or organization, who has a duty to defend the actions of its employee/agent officer. If a use of force incident is found to be outside the course and scope of employment, then CCW Safe would perform a coverage analysis to determine what coverage, if any, applies. CCW Safe will not provide the services for a Covered Member in violation of any restriction written in a plan description.

.....

FAQ - CCW Safe

ccwsafe.com

Am I covered in a "gun free zone"?

A general rule is that we only cover you if you are carrying any place where it is legal to carry a concealed firearm or legal to carry open without a license in public, or on-premises where possession of a firearm is not illegal or prohibited by the property owner where it carries no unlawful charge after leaving when being asked to do so.

The exact definition of the term “gun free zone” and the property owner rights that concern locations displaying a “No Guns” sign can change from state to state depending on the varying laws of each state. Our coverage requires you to follow the law where you carry.

In the case of “No Gun” or similar signage we suggest you avoid challenging the business that has one, as this could possibly put you in a position to be charged without being involved in a use of force incident, and that would be outside of your coverage and the consequences and financial responsibility of that arrest would be on you.

If you are in a state which allows any business to place “No Gun” or similar signage at the entrance but also requires a representative of that business to verbally tell you to leave the premises or be arrested for trespassing, you will be covered ONLY if you are not told to leave or If you agree to leave and have to defend your life or that of another, as you are leaving. If you are told to leave and refuse, then you are accepting the trespassing charge and you will not be covered if an incident occurs following your refusal to leave.

CCW Safe is not an organization to be used for political or ideological challenges to the laws in your state.

I think it's pretty clear they're not coving your in places with signs in MD. And I guess if SB1 becomes law you really wouldn't be covered anywhere.

The other part they touch on in the video's is if they only cover self defense and similarly wont cover criminal acts. What happens if you take a plea deal. Apparently 95% of cases end with some kind of plea deal. Do they drop the murder charge but hit you with some lesser charge. You and your lawyer might think it's a win but if you accept you've admitted to a crime, and could have to pay back all the legal fee's.

That one at least says something like wont cover you if "there is no evidence of self defense" to me implying that as long as you have some evidence even if it's small.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

Do you have what the CCW safe policy says?

If I'm reading it right USCCA says this any conviction and you're not covered. This is from the policy not just the key points on their web page.

 

[Phoenix_1295]

I think it's pretty clear they're not coving your in places with signs in MD.

This is not entirely correct. CCW Safe’s exclusions state, “if in a place where it is a misdemeanor or felony to possess a firearm.”

Under current MD law (with injunction), “guns prohibited” signs on non-government properties open to the public do not have the force of law. It would be trespassing, only, if you did not leave when asked/told.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

This is not entirely correct. CCW Safe’s exclusions state, “if in a place where it is a misdemeanor or felony to possess a firearm.”

Under current MD law (with injunction), “guns prohibited” signs on non-government properties open to the public do not have the force of law. It would be trespassing, only, if you did not leave when asked/told.

Ah, that makes sense.

Honestly I'm less concerned with the they might not cover you because of where you are then I am they might not cover you because you're charged with a crime like they did with the case in the video. Or that if you end up convicted of a lesser crime (I just used where you were carrying as a example) you may have to payback all the legal fee's. If that's the case the policy isn't really helping any. The lawyers in the one video mentioned 95% of cases end up with a plea deal. USCCA policy doesn't have to cover you if you plead guilty to any charge related to the event even if it's the smart move.

Where a policy like the one at Attorneys on Retainer apparently doesn't seem to have the clause. So I'm considering switching to that. I'm just looking for more info as making the wrong choice might be costly.

 

[Blaster229]

Don't get tunnel vision, you need coverage if you get into something in your home. Not just out in public.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

Don't get tunnel vision, you need coverage if you get into something in your home. Not just out in public.

Right, I don't disagree. I'm considering ditching uscca for attorneys on retainer.

I'm trying to figure out which one of the places is least likely to leave me hanging. I'd hate to think I'm covered only to find out when it's to late I gave them a bunch of money and I still have to pay for everything myself. They're insurance companies afterall, I doubt they really care about me.

 

[Blaster229]

Right, I don't disagree. I'm considering ditching uscca for attorneys on retainer.

I'm trying to figure out which one of the places is least likely to leave me hanging. I'd hate to think I'm covered only to find out when it's to late I gave them a bunch of money and I still have to pay for everything myself. They're insurance companies afterall, I doubt they really care about me.

Well, they aren't the actual "insurance company", I think the term is Intermediary?

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

Well, they aren't the actual "insurance company", I think the term is Intermediary?

Right, but behind them is a insurance company that controls the money. If the insurance company says no, then you don't get any help.

If you watch the video they're talking about a case of a woman who had a uscca plan. She shot her ex and claimed self defense. At the time her attorney thought she had a really good case, and the judge obvious thought there was a case there as he let it go to trial. The insurance company said she committed a crime before she was convicted and pulled her funding and she lost her lawyer.

 

[Blaster229]

Right, but behind them is a insurance company that controls the money. If the insurance company says no, then you don't get any help.

If you watch the video they're talking about a case of a woman who had a uscca plan. She shot her ex and claimed self defense. At the time her attorney thought she had a really good case, and the judge obvious thought there was a case there as he let it go to trial. The insurance company said she committed a crime before she was convicted and pulled her funding and she lost her lawyer.

IIRC there was no deadly threat from the Ex.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

IIRC there was no deadly threat from the Ex.

Yes, I assume that it what the insurance company decided, and she was convicted so the Jury must of agreed. We can wonder if her original lawyer was better and might of gotten her off but who knows. I'm sure it depends where you are, Zimmermen got off in Florida but he'd of probably been convicted in Maryland. So certainly there is a lesson here in knowing the law, but that's not really the question.

The question can the insurance company to decide you're guilty and drop you before you go to trial? And how likely is that? My understand based on this case, is that's how it works. Am I wrong? It doesn't seem like this coverage has been used much, so there is limited data.

I would assume that in 100% of self defense cases that go to trial the prosecution has evidence of some kind that they're using to charge you with a crime. If they didn't in wouldn't make it to trail. All of that evidence has to go to your insurance company. So if they review that and think you committed a crime they deny you. Your lawyer doesn't decide, USCCA probably doesn't either. I wonder the experience of the guy who makes the call and who that guy is.

So my understanding is if they wanted, they could deny 100% of self defense claims, then once you successfully defend yourself in court you could force them to pay you up to what the policy covered. Obviously they can't deny every case.

They mentioned in the video 95% of cases end in plea deals, if accurate that would mean if they deny everything they'd only have to pay out 5% of the time. I found a number of 90%, but I think that's for all crimes not self defense. So far I haven't found a good number on how many self defense cases go to trial or what the acquittal rate is.

 

[LCPIWB]

OP it should be noted, that none of these are "insurance", they are legal defense plans.

 

[Phoenix_1295]

A search for “Kayla Giles” brings up a lot of information regarding the incident and the trial. Interesting reading.

With regard to the provider covering the client, it is not just whether or not they are charged, but, also, does the situation meet the criteria for self defense. The self defense criteria/aspect is a critical component.

Example of Maryland self defense jury instruction:

MD CJIC  8.13(A). Self-Defense: General Instruction – Law of Self Defense

lawofselfdefense.com

[ETA link to jury instruction]

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

OP it should be noted, that none of these are "insurance", they are legal defense plans.

Right, but is it funded by a insurance policy? Meaning, if you have 1million coverage and a million in expenses that USCCA pays out. Does USCCA have those millions on hand to pay you? Or do they have insurance themselves to cover that cost if a case like that actually comes up.

It's kind of like how you can insure a lottery. You don't actually pay out the winnings yourself, you take out a policy and the insurance company behind it will determine the rate they charge you based on the odds of them needing to pay out on your behalf.

I'm thinking USCCA doesn't have millions of dollars on hand to back all their policies so they're probably backed by a much larger player supplying them with insurance. Someone at that company is going to have the final say not USCCA.

Is my assumption here wrong?

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

OP it should be noted, that none of these are "insurance", they are legal defense plans.

I was looking for something else and just stumbled on this. So clearly it's out of USCCA's hands and is handled by a insurance company. So while it may not be "insurance", it's vary much in the hands of a insurance company backing a insurance policy.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

A search for “Kayla Giles” brings up a lot of information regarding the incident and the trial. Interesting reading.

With regard to the provider covering the client, it is not just whether or not they are charged, but, also, does the situation meet the criteria for self defense. The self defense criteria/aspect is a critical component.

Example of Maryland self defense jury instruction:

MD CJIC  8.13(A). Self-Defense: General Instruction – Law of Self Defense

lawofselfdefense.com

[ETA link to jury instruction]

Yeah, when they mentioned she shot him through the door I figured she'd be in trouble. Certainly that is vary important.

Now, once we're past the details of this one case. What about the rest of the points made?

Does the attorney's for retainer plan that seems to back you even if you make a mistake that makes you guilty of a crime make more sense for most people? Maybe I'm missing something. (note it does say if you intentionally commit a crime you're not covered) So I'd take that as in her case she thought she was defending her life, her lawyer agreed the insurance company didn't so she's not covered. Under this plan it would seem her representation may of still been covered even though she was convicted.


Here is a link to their page.

Why Attorneys on Retainer? | Attorneys On Retainer

Compare the Attorneys On Retainer Self Protection plans against the leading Insurance Providers, the truth is in the details.

attorneysonretainer.us

 

[Phoenix_1295]

Yeah, when they mentioned she shot him through the door I figured she'd be in trouble. Certainly that is vary important.

Now, once we're past the details of this one case. What about the rest of the points made?

Does the attorney's for retainer plan that seems to back you even if you make a mistake that makes you guilty of a crime make more sense for most people? Maybe I'm missing something. (note it does say if you intentionally commit a crime you're not covered) So I'd take that as in her case she thought she was defending her life, her lawyer agreed the insurance company didn't so she's not covered. Under this plan it would seem her representation may of still been covered even though she was convicted.


Here is a link to their page.

Why Attorneys on Retainer? | Attorneys On Retainer

Compare the Attorneys On Retainer Self Protection plans against the leading Insurance Providers, the truth is in the details.

attorneysonretainer.us

There is a difference between providing an attorney to defend a person against a crime and an attorney being provided to represent someone wrongly charged in a valid case of self-defense.

Self-defense coverage providers, are just that, they provide legal services if the necessary elements of self-defense are met. There is a difference between claiming self-defense and meeting the conditions of self-defense. You may be charged either way, but, at some point in the process, those elements will be considered and addressed.

Any of the self-defense legal assistance providers are going to evaluate the circumstances to determine if the necessary qualifiers for self-defense are present in order to commit legal resources.

It is not uncommon for a perpetrator to claim self-defense when, in fact, that was not the case.

When you perform an internet search for her name, you will also find information on her case against USCCA.

[edited for typo]