AIMING IS USELESS! - this video is a must see.

[trickg]

The right grip is very important for trigger control for rapid fire shooting. If you look closely at Rob shooting you can clearly see that he isn't using a crushing grip. People interpret him saying use a tight grip or as he said "as tight as I can" as using a crushing grip...saying "as tight as I can" in my opinion is the four words he shouldn't have said....but words can be interpreted in many ways.
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I'm not even going to attempt to explain why he shot his 1st round 6 ft over the target, but because I shoot rapid fire a lot I understand how he did it.

I think that you're right on the interpretation - if someone were to have him delve into just what he meant, I doubt if he'd advocate for a crushing grip either. His point was that in order to maintain control of the gun, you have to have a very firm grip on it - like travistheone said, it's a sandwich with pressure on all sides.

As for him missing that one shot, I noticed that too. My thought was that he wasn't truly shooting for accuracy at that point - he was giving a demonstration about other things. I'm pretty sure that had his focus really been on hitting the target, I'm thinking he would have hit it.

 

[TexasBob]

With experience comes wisdom, Translation doing something over and over without repeating your mistakes people only see your perfection not your failures .

 

[travistheone]

also keep in mind that teaching doesn't require literal speech. what i mean is, if loose gripping is a common issue, you can instruct a class to grip super tight. this cue will bring their attention to their grip. Once a certain "tightness" is achieved, the instructor could tweak that cue.

 

[BigT5g]

My personal experience is mirroring what I am reading/hearing/seeing from the top shooters. And that is that the harder I hold the gun the faster I can accurately shoot any distance.
It may or may not matter that I am an experienced shooter with no recoil shyness or flinch. The advantage of being able to hold the gun on target, sighted or pointed and shoot literally as fast as I can slap the trigger is huge. Also how do you know Leatham wasn't crushing the gun? Hand strength properly transfered into the gun shouldn't make you look like your trying to open a greasy pickle jar. The tension shouldnt bleed into the rest of your body.

 

[BigT5g]

also keep in mind that teaching doesn't require literal speech. what i mean is, if loose gripping is a common issue, you can instruct a class to grip super tight. this cue will bring their attention to their grip. Once a certain "tightness" is achieved, the instructor could tweak that cue.

Again I respectfully disagree. I believe he is speaking very literally and advocating holding the gun as hard as physically possible. The job then, is to learn to pull the trigger while not disturbing the muzzle. That is achieved by practice. True methodical Practice being a concept far to foreign to the majority of shooters.

 

[trickg]

Again I respectfully disagree. I believe he is speaking very literally and advocating holding the gun as hard as physically possible. The job then, is to learn to pull the trigger while not disturbing the muzzle. That is achieved by practice. True methodical Practice being a concept far to foreign to the majority of shooters.

I think that shooters, as with any other hobby requiring a skill, can get way too caught up in the wrong details, or worse, think that gear is going to fix fundamental issues with their technique.

I see this all the time as a trumpet player. While the gear you use is certainly a component, someone with superior technique can play well even on bad equipment, and someone with poor technique won't be able to play well even on the best equipment. Something else I like to stress to aspiring HS kids in an effort to get them to reconsider their approach to playing is that ALL of playing the trumpet is comprised of combining some pretty basic elements of technique in a meaningful way to make music. The thought is that if I can get them thinking about the basic building blocks of technique in a simpler way, it will enable them to become more complete musicians.

I think that the video that started this thread is similar - Rob breaks down shooting into some pretty basic fundamental ideas so that we think about them in a simple way. Of course we have to put in the work to make use of those basic ideas, but I definitely like his approach.

 

[BigT5g]

To demonstrate that I am not armchairing this discussion here is a video of a stage this summer when I was intentionally working on my grip in proactice. Trying to consciously grip the gun literally as hard as I can. I got it to where, as you can see, I can shoot fast and the gun moves almost not at all and all hits are in the A zone (2 Cs). When I find myself not happy with my speed/accuracy during a stage I can usually attribute it to not gripping hard enough.
Not posting the video to brag or look cool, but I do think that folks post lots of good talking points, often with little to back it up.
I wish to be helpful here not just post for posting sake.

 

[lx1x]

So If a blind guy has perfect grip and trigger control... He can shoot the target in a zones?!?

/Sarcasm.

 

[jimbobborg]

So If a blind guy has perfect grip and trigger control... He can shoot the target in a zones?!?

/Sarcasm.

If someone else is aiming, yes!

 

[kalister1]

If you pay attention to the Video he does not say NEVER look at the sights. He says it does you NO good to look at the sights IF the gun moves when you pull the trigger. Not looking at sights will hit the target at 5 to 10 feet is what he says. Once you can fire the pistol without it moving off target, then you need to look at the sights to ensure good hits at distance.
I can Double Tap a target at 3 to 4 feet without looking at the sights at all and still hit it twice(FNH 3 gun = 2 hits anywhere on target.) Any further than that sights become important to me, don't always use them, don't always hit the target either.

 

[BigT5g]

So If a blind guy has perfect grip and trigger control... He can shoot the target in a zones?!?

/Sarcasm.

Ha! Indeed.

Just so folks aren't confused the video title is click bait. Of course you have to do some form of aiming, whether sighted or pointed but the concept is that for fast and accurate shooting the ability to crush the gun and control the muzzle as the trigger is activated is the first step or aiming is useless as you will either move the muzzle off target OR be unable to control the gun enough for rapid follow up shots. How's that for a run on sentence??

 

[BigT5g]

If you pay attention to the Video he does not say NEVER look at the sights. He says it does you NO good to look at the sights IF the gun moves when you pull the trigger. Not looking at sights will hit the target at 5 to 10 feet is what he says. Once you can fire the pistol without it moving off target, then you need to look at the sights to ensure good hits at distance.
I can Double Tap a target at 3 to 4 feet without looking at the sights at all and still hit it twice(FNH 3 gun = 2 hits anywhere on target.) Any further than that sights become important to me, don't always use them, don't always hit the target either.

Bingo!

 

[jimbobborg]

If you pay attention to the Video he does not say NEVER look at the sights. He says it does you NO good to look at the sights IF the gun moves when you pull the trigger. Not looking at sights will hit the target at 5 to 10 feet is what he says. Once you can fire the pistol without it moving off target, then you need to look at the sights to ensure good hits at distance.
I can Double Tap a target at 3 to 4 feet without looking at the sights at all and still hit it twice(FNH 3 gun = 2 hits anywhere on target.) Any further than that sights become important to me, don't always use them, don't always hit the target either.

This is why I'm putting a double-action revolver back into competition rotation.

 

[mike_in_md]

Lets keep the conversation going. Here's another video.

 

[lx1x]

If you pay attention to the Video he does not say NEVER look at the sights. He says it does you NO good to look at the sights IF the gun moves when you pull the trigger. Not looking at sights will hit the target at 5 to 10 feet is what he says. Once you can fire the pistol without it moving off target, then you need to look at the sights to ensure good hits at distance.
I can Double Tap a target at 3 to 4 feet without looking at the sights at all and still hit it twice(FNH 3 gun = 2 hits anywhere on target.) Any further than that sights become important to me, don't always use them, don't always hit the target either.

 

[BigT5g]

Lets keep the conversation going. Here's another video.

Totally get this, and if you had asked me a year ago I would likely have said something similar. All I can relay is where I'm at now and this more classical approach now seems over complicated and measurably less effective in my own shooting.

 

[clandestine]

Thanks for posting. Learned something new.

 

[BigT5g]

I'll just say one more thing (yeah right..). Please don't think that this something that you will plug into your shooting and have instant success. Like I said, I worked on this very hard for months. You have to learn to keep the muzzle steady while crushing the gun gun and pulling the trigger. It may take a while, but if you can get it, I promise the results are worth it! I realize we are all red blooded Americans here but we really weren't born with the ability to shoot fast and accurately. Gotta have constant methodical practice both live and dry fire.

 

[Blaster229]

No offense, but I'd have a new shooter hitting 10 yard targets point and shoot on their first shots.

 

[BigT5g]

Point shooting is one thing, and sure I also teach it early and often but the idea that you can truly squeeze the gun as hard as you can allowing you to slap the crap out of the trigger as fast as possible takes some practice. Dry fire is a good way. Looking at the front sight, crushing the gun and mashing the trigger while keeping that front sight from moving (and being honest with youself). Then take that feeling and trying it live fire. No offense but that does take practice to get not only hit the target bit get them in the A zone. Bill drills under 2 seconds are a good measure. If you can run that time consistently you are on it.