AGC Feb Match Registrations NOW OPEN - Steel Challenge, 3 Gun and IDPA

[ArmedInMd]

Hahaha glad the laundry cart gave you a chuckle. It actually wasn't too bad, might have to add some gun holders to make it a little more official.

 

[knovotny]

Haha, I loved the laundry cart! 2 people shooting 3 gun out of one wagon wasn't the most pleasant.

Great day! Fun stages, and the gravel is phenomenal!

And I kicked the spinners butt!! However pistol kicked mine. I really need to improve pistol. You'd think steel challenge would have helped with that by now... le sigh.

I will toss out a recommendation for shotgun. I LOVE my Remington Versamax competition. Soft shooting, and it has been reliable.

 

[Jollyllama]

Awesome day, great weather, stages were very entertaining and I beat the spinner!

I was impressed with the tactical laundry basket as well; very innovative.

It is official, after borrowing a shotgun for the day that was set for 3-gun, I am taking some files to my Browning A5 and ordering a mag tube for it.

I was disappointed that there were no vehicles parked in a shooting bay.

Thanks again to all who helped set up, volunteers and those who manage all the work on the back end.

 

[rbird7282]

I feel your pain, and I was using a shotgun lol

Not sure if I’ll do any better

Mission accomplished

Lol. This is going to get expensive......

I am going to start a go fund me page for you. This was the highlight of my day.

Lol

Hahaha glad the laundry cart gave you a chuckle. It actually wasn't too bad, might have to add some gun holders to make it a little more official.

I like it, improvisation at its finest!

 

[MEGARMS]

Lol. This is going to get expensive...

Do your research. Register for 3 Gun next time and I will put you on a squad with some guys who I know wont mind lending you a couple different shotguns to try.

Keep this in mind when shopping for a shotgun. The price range of three gun shotguns is very wide.

You can spend as little as $600 and as much as $3000. We all know guys with $650 Stoegers that swear by them and have zero issues. There are also guys with that same shotgun that cant make it through a match without some sort of (normally multiple) loading issues. It is a great shotgun for the money and it comes out of the box ready to go (well, I think you have to buy an extended mag tube for it). It really depends on what day of the week the shotgun was built. This same theory applies to the $600 Mossberg 930 JM Pro.

One thing I can say for 100% sure is this. If you are prepared to spend $1500 or so, and are capable of doing the work to make it match ready, then it will run flawlessly 99% of the time. If you are not capable of doing the work yourself, then you are going to need to spend $2000-$3000, but you will have the baddest gun on the range.

I think the most important thing for you decide upfront is, "Do I subscribe to the Buy Once, Cry Once theory, or do I want to gamble and take the chance that the less expensive gun I buy was built on a Friday afternoon?"

Just know this; Benelli and Browning are not open on Fridays.

 

[rseymorejr]

Just know this; Benelli and Browning are not open on Fridays.

So, stay away from their Thursday guns?

 

[MEGARMS]

So, stay away from their Thursday guns?

Well, Benelli makes their Stoeger line on Fridays. Just make sure you get one built before lunch. Stay completely away from the Mossberg 930 because those guys smoke weed before work and drink everyday at lunch. Ask me how I know.

 

[ArmedInMd]

Well, Benelli makes their Stoeger line on Fridays. Just make sure you get one built before lunch. Stay completely away from the Mossberg 930 because those guys smoke weed before work and drink everyday at lunch. Ask me how I know.

I came here looking for shotgun purchase advice. Now you have me wondering how one would go about applying for a job at this factory, sounds like a different work environment then the norm. Asking for a friend

 

[MEGARMS]

I came here looking for shotgun purchase advice. Now you have me wondering how one would go about applying for a job at this factory, sounds like a different work environment then the norm. Asking for a friend

In all seriousness, you can’t spend your way to success in this sport (ask me how I know). Having a plan and executing that plan Trumps high dollar equipment everyday. While expensive gear is nice to have, it isn’t necessary for someone with just a mediocre skill level (which is 95% of us). When seconds or fractions of seconds can mean the difference between 1st and 2nd place at a major match with a real prize table, then and only then is your gear going to make any difference.

All of that said, It really comes down to what your budget is. I used to have a safe full of 60+ guns that I never used and had no plans of using or that I was not happy with ie. a JM Pro that jammed at least once per match. I sold all of them that had no sentimental value or practical use or that I felt just plain sucked. I used those funds to buy/build 4 guns that don’t suck and I use all of the time, so I feel like I am getting my money’s worth. A couple of them are sexy and they run perfect nearly 100% of the time, but they really don’t make me a better competitor. In fact, I finish lower in the standings now than I did with my less expensive guns. Next is having the doctor fix my eyes again.

So, buy what you can or want to afford and run with it. In fact running with a gun that has periodic problems will only make you better in the future.

 

[erwos]

You're not wrong about buying reliable guns the first time. I am not sure I agree quite as much about better guns and gear not providing advantages even to novice shooters; if you're shooting a shotgun, there's kind of a minimum floor of having a reliable semi-auto and a belt setup for loading twins/quads. Even Josh, who was a friggin' beast loading that 1301 from a side saddle, would have picked up a lot of time if he had a twins rig on his belt and a day or two of practice. Similarly, shooting rifle fast without a comp is simply much harder than with it. Both of those things made a real difference to me when I implemented them, and definitely boosted my placement (which wasn't great, but was better than last time). You won't buy your place at the top, but mediocre gear will hold you back.

The one thing I will say for the Stoeger M3K is that they are generally reliable out of the box with 1 1/8 loads and you can send it off to MOA Precision and get it tuned/upgraded pretty nicely for a few hundred bucks. I watched both dudes in my squad with JM Pro 930s have issues today, which is pretty much in line with every time I've seen someone run a 930 hard at a match or class.

One other consideration is that maintenance is a real thing. If you are running your guns in really cold weather, you NEED to lube them well, preferably with a cold weather-rated lubricant. I've started making a habit of slapping some lube on my guns before a range outing of any sort, and I have not been disappointed. I'm not going to overclean stuff, but lube is life when running guns hard in tough conditions.

 

[MEGARMS]

You're not wrong about buying reliable guns the first time. I am not sure I agree quite as much about better guns and gear not providing advantages even to novice shooters; if you're shooting a shotgun, there's kind of a minimum floor of having a reliable semi-auto and a belt setup for loading twins/quads. Even Josh, who was a friggin' beast loading that 1301 from a side saddle, would have picked up a lot of time if he had a twins rig on his belt and a day or two of practice. Similarly, shooting rifle fast without a comp is simply much harder than with it. Both of those things made a real difference to me when I implemented them, and definitely boosted my placement (which wasn't great, but was better than last time). You won't buy your place at the top, but mediocre gear will hold you back.

The one thing I will say for the Stoeger M3K is that they are generally reliable out of the box with 1 1/8 loads and you can send it off to MOA Precision and get it tuned/upgraded pretty nicely for a few hundred bucks. I watched both dudes in my squad with JM Pro 930s have issues today, which is pretty much in line with every time I've seen someone run a 930 hard at a match or class.

One other consideration is that maintenance is a real thing. If you are running your guns in really cold weather, you NEED to lube them well, preferably with a cold weather-rated lubricant. I've started making a habit of slapping some lube on my guns before a range outing of any sort, and I have not been disappointed. I'm not going to overclean stuff, but lube is life when running guns hard in tough conditions.

The right guns and gear are definitely important. Maybe I was a bit unclear in my rambling. This is what I meant.

I don’t shoot any better or that much faster with my 2011 than I did with my XDm 5.25, even though the 2011 cost 3 times as much.

I am only marginally faster with my Benelli M2 than I was with my JM Pro; mostly because the M2 never jams. I have 2 1/2 time into that M2 than what I had into the JM Pro.

The Vortex Razor I replaced my Vortex Viper with doesn’t give me any discernible advantage despite costing 3 times as much.

The three combined are fun to have and look at, but the return on investment at my level of skill is just not that much.

 

[Occam]

The three combined are fun to have and look at

And there we have it, right? Works for me!

Besides: what am I noticing four or five stages in on a chilly day on the mud and gravel and trying not to get DQ'd by face planting myself with a loaded gun while moving like ... well, like someone my age? I'll tell you what: that maybe I should have spent $60 more on better socks and the right shoes/boots. Sure footing, blood still flowing in extremities, and no stabbing pains in your ankles? That DEFINITELY improves your score. I suppose my non-joking point is that there are a lot of other, less expensive variables that contribute to a good score, safe conduct, and having fun.

Over the life of a high quality gun or optic, I also do value the aesthetics and the simple pleasure of owning and handling (and cleaning and maintaining) something that shows a sleeker, more compelling, sexier design and workmanship. The first step is admitting that handling a cooler gun is at least as gratifying as shaving off that second and a half. I confess!

 

[erwos]

Also depends heavily on where you're shooting, both in terms of match style and outright ranges. AGC bays just don't have the room for the long-range targets that you'd see at Shadow Hawk or PNTC, so you can get away with somewhat less LPVO even for those tricky 50yd A-zone targets. (That's not a critique, either, it's just the reality of the situation.)

But, yeah, it's definitely mostly skill, and that skill is more than just shooting fast and accurately, it's moving efficiently, too. Sorta tough to practice in some areas (like here in MoCo, where you can't even shoot airsoft in your backyard for FFS).

 

[1time]

The right guns and gear are definitely important. Maybe I was a bit unclear in my rambling. This is what I meant.



I don’t shoot any better or that much faster with my 2011 than I did with my XDm 5.25, even though the 2011 cost 3 times as much.



I am only marginally faster with my Benelli M2 than I was with my JM Pro; mostly because the M2 never jams. I have 2 1/2 time into that M2 than what I had into the JM Pro.



The Vortex Razor I replaced my Vortex Viper with doesn’t give me any discernible advantage despite costing 3 times as much.



The three combined are fun to have and look at, but the return on investment at my level of skill is just not that much.

I would argue maybe you are a little better than you think. A great shooter can run an 8lb shooter as well as a 2 lb trigger. A 2 lb trigger is a lot more forgiving to less than perfect fundamentals than an 8lb trigger. The huge eye box on the Razor is more forgiving to a rifle that isn’t mounted on the shoulder just right. A tuned rifle that shoots flat is more forgiving to poor recoil control. And an A5 that auto loads from the tube is more forgiving to a new shooter than having to drop a round in the chamber, then turn the gun over and start loading the tube.

Not to mention, I have seen most cheaper shotguns fail a lot. 930’s are horrible or will get there with a fair amount of use. I’ve seen several versamax crap the bed. The Stoeger seems to do better but have seen examples that don’t. I had good luck with an FN SLP but know several guys that have them break. The M2’s and Benelli’s rarely go down and when they do it’s guns with ten thousand plus rounds per year.

You are absolutely correct in that you can’t buy your way to a win but you can buy your way out of a lot of frustration.

I wouldn’t recommend anyone run out and buy a bunch of gear if you have something serviceable. I would recommend to buy the best you can if you are going to buy something. Benelli’s and Brownings are expensive but less expensive than buying several shotguns before deciding to buy a B gun(ask me how I know).

Either way, it was a great match and I had a lot of fun. Thank you and all of the club members that worked on the match! I’ll be back.

 

[GolfR]

The right guns and gear are definitely important. Maybe I was a bit unclear in my rambling. This is what I meant.

I don’t shoot any better or that much faster with my 2011 than I did with my XDm 5.25, even though the 2011 cost 3 times as much.

I am only marginally faster with my Benelli M2 than I was with my JM Pro; mostly because the M2 never jams. I have 2 1/2 time into that M2 than what I had into the JM Pro.

The Vortex Razor I replaced my Vortex Viper with doesn’t give me any discernible advantage despite costing 3 times as much.

The three combined are fun to have and look at, but the return on investment at my level of skill is just not that much.

A shooter that buys a reliable gun and a $1000 of ammo and practices regularly will beat a shooter that spends the extra $1000 on a gun and can’t afford to practice any day.

Some of the most competitive shooters at AGC are shooting run of the mill M&Ps, Glocks, or CZs with M3Ks and a nothing special AR.

 

[danb]

A shooter that buys a reliable gun and a $1000 of ammo and practices regularly will beat a shooter that spends the extra $1000 on a gun and can’t afford to practice any day.

Some of the most competitive shooters at AGC are shooting run of the mill M&Ps, Glocks, or CZs with M3Ks and a nothing special AR.

IDK.

Shooters with a lot of mismatched ammo and duct tape manage to score a lot of headshots in Baltimore. Sometimes I wonder if we all overthink it and over spend.

 

[MEGARMS]

A shooter that buys a reliable gun and a $1000 of ammo and practices regularly will beat a shooter that spends the extra $1000 on a gun and can’t afford to practice any day.

Some of the most competitive shooters at AGC are shooting run of the mill M&Ps, Glocks, or CZs with M3Ks and a nothing special AR.

To be fair, one could give you a stick, piece of rubber from an old bicycle inner tube, and some pebbles and you would still kick my ass.

 

[Art3]

Neither of us were shooting pistol very well that day...which is weird, because that part is basically Steel Challenge

 

[Art3]

 

[photoracer]

Those are a lot "easier" than the stages I used to shoot in 3-gun at PNTC, York IWLA, and a few other venues. Ever since my total knee replacement surgery I have been scouting easier stages to shoot than those I did before to start again. I was originally thinking Thurmont as they seldom use the 300y range and the rest of the bays are short. But not having to run and carry the firearm except for the holstered pistol at yours looks a lot easier and safer to start with I think. Just have to figure out when I have an extra weekend free of other matches so I can do a couple..