A quick look at two p365 X-Macros and the p365 AXG Legion

[boss281]

SETUP
The Sig X-Macro comes in a few flavors, most with polymer based grips. I have the non-compensated version with the 3.7" barrel, the TACOPs with the same barrel, and the new alloy framed AXG Legion. My non-comp X-Macro came with suppressor height sights and a Romeo Elite. My TACOPs has the regular height night sights but I threw a spare Romeo Elite on there (the fixed front is still visible though shorter). I've had both for about a year and they shoot great, albeit the usual little snappy polymer compact. Recently I added the MCarbo trigger and spring upgrade to the TACOPS after both guns were well broken in.

Recently, I picked up the p365 axg legion. It has the same foot print as the X-Macros BUT, the grip module is a metal allow and overall and 4 ounces heavier. There are cuts at the front of the slide and the shorter 3.1" barrel. The sight radius is shorter on the AXG.

The two polymer frame guns have about 900 rounds through them over the past year, perhaps 100 more. I don't count. The AXG is brand new.

OBSERVATIONS
Today, I went to Guntry shooting range in Owings Mills and took these three guns. Note the non-comped polymer gun (all stock) is my carry gun.

I shot Federal 115g, 124g Sellier & Bellot, and Hornady 115g Critical Defense. Just note that all loaded, ejected and shot well. So no comparisons.

I shot at 5, 7 and 10 yards. The two polymer guns with the Romeo red dots are tack drivers at these distances. Yeah, they are snappy. But accurate for a light compact. I really, really dig these pistols. The upgraded springs and trigger in the TACOPS make a noticeable improvement to feel and reset for sure. I've never put the two on my wheeler gauge but i bet the pull on the upgraded gun is improved.

With this observation, I think my carry gun would benefit from the MCarbo upgrade and the TACOPS with the suppressor height sights. Not that important right now.

The AXG is a surprise. The snappiness of the polymer guns is greatly reduced, fit my hand better for some reason. I wish I had a holster for it as I would have loved to draw from it. It feels that good in my hands. I ran 50 rounds of 115g and 50 rounds of 124g, plus 25 rounds of my (expensive) Hornady. Almost every freaking shot was low left by an inch at all 3 distances.

Hand grip issue? Jerking or anticipating the trigger? It felt the same as the non-comped stock X-Macro as it should since the FCU is identical. Yet, I couldn't get it on target. I pulled the other two guns up and used the fixed sights instead of the dot. Tack drivers. The AXG in hand was a puzzle. I think I'll reevaluate seriously in another 400 rounds or so. But damn this is a fine shooter regardless, an inch down and left not withstanding. I have a Romeo X on backorder as well as holsters. This has the potential to become my on the hip IWB carry if a good break in gets me where I want it to be.

Was it worth the price over the typical X-Macro? Tough call, but I'd do it again. It just feels so darn good. I hope I get the POI on the bullseye soon.

 

[outrider58]

If you're right-handed, then yeah, a bit of pre-ignition push probably. Sometimes that will crop up when you're fatigued. If I'm on the range for a longish session, I keep mindful of that and quit at the first hint of it. I fear imprinting a new bad habit. I'm a Glock guy for that very reason(snappiness of most S365s). I just can't seem to be able to hold onto those little Sigs like I can my G48 and on up. Sure, the Macro-X and the Legion have larger grip mods and are easier to hang onto, but I'm already Glockified and see no reason to switch at this point.

If you were thinking of putting suppressor height sights on your carry gun because of the RDS, I would skip it. In all likelihood, if you need your gun for self defense, you won't have time or space to use the do anyways(just my worthless personal opinion). A 'duty or HD' gun is a completely different matter though.

 

[boss281]

If you're right-handed, then yeah, a bit of pre-ignition push probably. Sometimes that will crop up when you're fatigued. If I'm on the range for a longish session, I keep mindful of that and quit at the first hint of it. I fear imprinting a new bad habit. I'm a Glock guy for that very reason(snappiness of most S365s). I just can't seem to be able to hold onto those little Sigs like I can my G48 and on up. Sure, the Macro-X and the Legion have larger grip mods and are easier to hang onto, but I'm already Glockified and see no reason to switch at this point.

If you were thinking of putting suppressor height sights on your carry gun because of the RDS, I would skip it. In all likelihood, if you need your gun for self defense, you won't have time or space to use the do anyways(just my personal opinion). A 'duty or HD' gun is a completely different matter though.

Hey Outrider. I hadn't thought of fatigue being a possible issue, since it WAS the third gun I shot. More range time for sure. I'll get it out weekly to see if I'm comfy with it. I hate the stock fixed sights though and need something with more contrast. Although the RDS is on order, I'd rather not have to put it on the gun. We'll see. Thanks for the feedback, I'll shoot it first next week to see if fatigue may have been contributing to the old down and left...

Hope all is well with you!

 

[outrider58]

Hey Outrider. I hadn't thought of fatigue being a possible issue, since it WAS the third gun I shot. More range time for sure. I'll get it out weekly to see if I'm comfy with it. I hate the stock fixed sights though and need something with more contrast. Although the RDS is on order, I'd rather not have to put it on the gun. We'll see. Thanks for the feedback, I'll shoot it first next week to see if fatigue may have been contributing to the old down and left...

Hope all is well with you!

Thanks J! Good as can be expected. Good luck with the new shooter!

 

[Blaster229]

Hey Outrider. I hadn't thought of fatigue being a possible issue, since it WAS the third gun I shot. More range time for sure. I'll get it out weekly to see if I'm comfy with it. I hate the stock fixed sights though and need something with more contrast. Although the RDS is on order, I'd rather not have to put it on the gun. We'll see. Thanks for the feedback, I'll shoot it first next week to see if fatigue may have been contributing to the old down and left...

Hope all is well with you!

I explained this in another thread. Low and left.
It's caused by your 3 strong grip fingers sympathetically moving when you press(move) your trigger finger. They loosen up, re-grip, and that movement pushes typically low/left. Isolate your trigger finger press better.
That being said, a good, consistent grip counters the problem, but doesn't eliminate it.

I haven't seen you shoot, but you are also shooting too fast and too much ammo. Load mags 1 or 2 rounds at a time, this way you are forced to go slow. Many people load these mags up to the max and keep pressed out shooting until the mag is empty. Your arms get tired, you start throwing shots, you get frustrated and start shooting faster because you have not run out of ammo yet.
If anything, 15 rounds you should be having 15 separate shots with pressing back out, re-aiming, etc... the whole evolution. Not 1 long 15 round session. Make sense?
Get your money's worth out of your ammo. That's what the practice is for.

 

[River02]

I haven't seen you shoot, but you are also shooting too fast and too much ammo. Load mags 1 or 2 rounds at a time, this way you are forced to go slow. Many people load these mags up to the max and keep pressed out shooting until the mag is empty. Your arms get tired, you start throwing shots, you get frustrated and start shooting faster because you have not run out of ammo yet.
If anything, 15 rounds you should be having 15 separate shots with pressing back out, re-aiming, etc... the whole evolution. Not 1 long 15 round session. Make sense?
Get your money's worth out of your ammo. That's what the practice is for.

Hadn't thought of this before but it makes total sense to me-- thanx for the guidance...worth the price of admission.

 

[ezracer]

Also practice at home with dry firing. It helps.

 

[Blaster229]

Hadn't thought of this before but it makes total sense to me-- thanx for the guidance...worth the price of admission.

If we had only 1 round magazines, everyone would be a great shot. LOL

 

[JRSMD]

Appreciate the review on the 365 as I have been considering one. Also the great and valuable info on techniques to firing a new to you handgun and what the certain outcomes mean. I never thought about these things when shooting. I don’t post much but just want to say thanks to all.

 

[Tapper]

OP, thanks the great reviews! A 365 is at the top of my list, although I do intend to rent one first.

 

[Mark75H]

I preach the same things Blaster says in all my classes. Students that pay attention have remarkable success. Lefties shoot the mirror image target spread to low right. My assistant and I remark that you can tell whether a shooter was right handed or left handed just by looking at their targets. Someone whose spread is center and vertical is showing much better than average grip and probably stance as well, but probably anticipating and pushing the gun while pulling the trigger, esp if the shots are center low.

It's not so much not gripping with the strong hand as much as EQUALIZING the grip force between the hands; your support hand is not just going along for the ride, but rather doing half of the work (for balance). On the other hand (so to speak) your thumbs pretty much are just there for the ride. Don't tangle them up and keep them away from the controls.

 

[outrider58]

This is the guide I go by. Mechanics aside, this is a valuable diagnosis drill that in real time, will tell you where your problems lie, and how to correct in real time. Every few range sessions, I'll hang one of these targets up and shoot.

Red dots, in and of themselves, are great diagnostic tools, during dry firing and in the case of this video, live fire too.

 

[boss281]

Appreciate all the feedback. Trust me, I was really surprised to experience this classic, well documented issue. But it's there, and frankly, I lost focus trying to correct it. A fellow vet and shooting instructor will hopefully get me back on track this weekend. But even with the slight low/left in hand, I really really like this new AXG.

 

[boss281]

This is the guide I go by. Mechanics aside, this is a valuable diagnosis drill that in real time, will tell you where your problems lie, and how to correct in real time. Every few range sessions, I'll hang one of these targets up and shoot.

Red dots, in and of themselves, are great diagnostic tools, during dry firing and in the case of this video, live fire too.

Just watched it. Nice drill. Note the two XMacros with dots were dead on in my hands (2" targets). It was the non-RDS new AXG that was giving me fits. But I like this as an RDS drill. Thanks!