A Comment by Ayoob

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I was reading an article last night by Mas Ayoob and in it he said:

Many defensive gun usages occur at physical contact distance, and sometimes the defender has to shove the muzzle against a murderous attacker’s body as he or she fires to save their own innocent life. Most semi-automatic pistols (the Springfield Armory XD being a noticeable exception) will be pushed out of battery by this firm muzzle contact.

My question is what is different about the XD’s? I’m curious and don’t have any experience with them.

 

[Inigoes]

Do they hav a safety like the 1911? when the barrel/slide is pushed back, the firearm will not fire...

 

[sinzitu]

The XDs recoil spring assembly/guide rod potrudes from the from by a small amount. I believe that is what Ayoob is referring to as this will help prevent the gun from coming out of battery when pressed against something.

You can see it from this example:

 

[donliv]

I don't think it is a built in feature, but i just tried it with my xdm and snap caps pushed against the floor. You can still pull the trigger and it feels normal, but the firing pin is not released.

However, there is a sweet spot. It seems if the slide is pushed back slightly it will still release the firing pin, however it looks as if the barrel and slide are still locked together at that point...

 

[Spot77]

Geez, seriously? How hard do you have to press your handgun into somebody to push it out of battery?

But I guess knowing about the slight potential, is enough to make one think of such things should you find yourself in that close of a situation.

 

[Inigoes]

That's why snub nosed revolvers are known as "Belly Guns".

When your adrenaline is pumping, you will apply more force without even knowing it.

 

[sinzitu]

I'm not certain about the XDm though on the XD this by design for just this type of scenario. Though I suspect if you were in a situation that had the muzzle pressed very hard into someone that it could still be pushed out of battery.

Edit: Just looked at a closer pic of the XDm at it appears that the guide rod is flush with the slide. That could explain why your test didn't work.

 

[RobMoore]

Much ado about nothing

 

[Nemesis11c]

That's why you go out and get one of those fancy pistol bayonets!

 

[sinzitu]

That's why you go out and get one of those fancy pistol bayonets!

Exactly!

 

[lax]

Much ado about nothing

probably so but if Ayoob makes a mention of something it should at least considered

 

[RobMoore]

I did consider, just didn't agree with.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

It certainly doesn't seem like something that would make me run out and get an XD on that basis. I was just curious as to why this one out of all the striker-fired polymers out there was different.

 

[Wraith]

The XDM is a match grade pistol, meant more for target shooting, and not actual combat. It also uses a non captive guide rod. The standard XD series have captive guide springs with an extension on the end that keeps the muzzle off of the target when pressed against it, as long as it isn't at a pronounced angle. This is what allows it to stay in battery, and one of the many reasons it was the gun I chose to be my first.

 

[alucard0822]

Not a problem with most blowback pistols, being the barrel is rigidly mounted, and can often still fire slightly out of battery if the slide is pushed back a little around the barrel, and of course not a problem with revolvers (grabbing the cylinder will jam them though) although for some, the need seems to be dire enough to use muzzle guards or pistol bayonets.

In my case, the easiest way to prevent the pistol from coming out of battery from a contact shot is to practice retension techniqes that do not need the muzzle to contact te assailant, and every time a pistol is used as a striking object(last ditch defense in the case of a failure to fire) it is immediately followed up by a type I or type II malfunction drill.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

Just another reason to consider an Obrez as your carry piece. Bayonet optional.

 

[CKOD]

Just another reason to consider an Obrez as your carry piece. Bayonet optional.

View attachment 14936

I'm pretty sure pressed up against someone, that would be a 100% kill chance as the hot gasses blow up inside of someone and sear the insides

 

[smores]

Geez, seriously? How hard do you have to press your handgun into somebody to push it out of battery?

But I guess knowing about the slight potential, is enough to make one think of such things should you find yourself in that close of a situation.

Not much. Take any of your pistols, clear it, insert a snap cap if you wish, and press the muzzle against an open palm. See how far it takes the slide to travel before the disconnector is tripped. On most pistols I've tried about 1/8" is all you need to hit the disconnector. Even on the XD, if you apply any pressure to the slide or muzzle away from the guide rod it will go out of battery. So unless your target is relatively firm, and your barrel is square to it, it may not fire. Stick in a plump individual's belly and see what I mean! (some of the things we learn in gunsmithing school lol...)

For extreme close quarters, I agree with the above that a revolver is the best. Especially with a bobbed hammer, there's no slide, ejection port, or moving parts that can get caught up that easily with wheelguns. And even more so with the shrouded hammer types...

If you've read any books by Ayoob he makes this point. He suggests rotating a semi-auto about 45-90 degrees outward from your body to give the slide room to travel if you have to use it pointblank. It's less likely to get caught up in your shirt that way, apparently...

 

[smores]

Not a problem with most blowback pistols, being the barrel is rigidly mounted, and can often still fire slightly out of battery if the slide is pushed back a little around the barrel, and of course not a problem with revolvers (grabbing the cylinder will jam them though) although for some, the need seems to be dire enough to use muzzle guards or pistol bayonets.

In my case, the easiest way to prevent the pistol from coming out of battery from a contact shot is to practice retension techniqes that do not need the muzzle to contact te assailant, and every time a pistol is used as a striking object(last ditch defense in the case of a failure to fire) it is immediately followed up by a type I or type II malfunction drill.

CZ's TacBloc FTW!!!

 

[smores]

Just another reason to consider an Obrez as your carry piece. Bayonet optional.

View attachment 14936

Um... is that an AOW or SBR? In either case, forget the SERBU I want need one of those. And it will only cost me ~$80 with the tax stamp, if it's an AOW.