8.6BLK, 8.6Blackout, 8.6 Blackout, 8.6x43

[85MikeTPI]

Search engines sux with 3 char so I’m not sure if this has been addressed before and the reason for my long title

Is anyone reloading for 8.6BLK yet? While I don’t need to jump into another caliber, I’m already into 6.5cm for brass, 300BLK for powder, and 338Lapua for projectiles, so component wise it’s GTG

I have a stripped AR10 lower sitting in the safe and all the needed tools, etc.

So I guess I’m looking for the “why” and pet loads from anyone that’s already make the leap..

Getting a big bore Can would be a plus for playing with subs, especially if I go up past .458 to use on both the Socom and 8.6…

 

[smdub]

If just for subs, why not just do 458 Socom or 500Beo? Heavier is better there since velocity is capped.
If for subs and supers from an AR10, why not 45 or 375 Raptor?
8.6BLK intrigues me but I don't think its as good in subsonic as other bigger options. I don't know if its 'good enough' at supersonic though. .338 surely has some high BC bullets avail but I don't know how fast it can push them to best something like 7.62N or 6.5CM which I already have.
8.6 might have the edge if all you have is a .338 rated suppressor. A .45 can would cover everything but the 500Beo. Not everyone has one of those though. I bought a VERS50 so I can shoot the 500s (but still haven't finished the gun.)

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Some info for you.

8.6 Blackout: A complete ballistics profile (with pros and cons) – Backfire

backfire.tv

8.6 Blackout Ammo: Everything You Need to Know

Learn everything you need to know about 8.6 blackout ammo. Discover its performance, pairing with suppressors, the variety of ammunition offerings, and the top 8.6BLK firearms.

www.silencershop.com

Here is load data on the Faxon website.

 

[alucard0822]

Agreed that other calibers like 375 Raptor would likely have better subsonic performance, but the prospect of a barrel swap is cool, especially given I have an AR308 SBR already and rifle rated 9mm cans. There are a couple things holding me back. The 1:3 twist rate and alleged inability to use jacketed bullets for super loads, and 18x1.5mm muzzle threads with tapered shoulder. Outside of Q, SiCo just started making an ASR in that, but nothing from Griffin yet as all my rifle hosts use taper mount muzzle devices.

 

[smdub]

IIRC, 45 & 375 Raptor are also just barrel swaps.

 

[smdub]

Here is load data on the Faxon website.

Ok, that caused me to finally read up on it more. My observations:
1) If only shooting subsonic, it makes less sense as sub 350 Legend, 458 socom, 50Beo can all achieve the same velocities. The real advantage of the AR10 sized cartridges is 20 in a mag vs 10-15 of the AR15 sized loads.
2) Shooting supersonic, the big cases absolutely clobber the small AR15 sized ones as expected. So the comparison between the big boys is who is better? Looking at the load data given above it looks like the 375 Raptor is the clear winner. It pushes an even heavier bullet even faster than 8.6BLK.
8.6BLK: 160gr 2400fps
375R: ~250gr 2400fps
Thats 80% more energy! Wow, wasn't expecting such a large difference. 1:8 - 1:6.5 twist bbls are avail that don't have supersonic jacket shedding concerns like the 1:3 of 8.6BLK.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Ok, that caused me to finally read up on it more. My observations:
1) If only shooting subsonic, it makes less sense as sub 350 Legend, 458 socom, 50Beo can all achieve the same velocities. The real advantage of the AR10 sized cartridges is 20 in a mag vs 10-15 of the AR15 sized loads.
2) Shooting supersonic, the big cases absolutely clobber the small AR15 sized ones as expected. So the comparison between the big boys is who is better? Looking at the load data given above it looks like the 375 Raptor is the clear winner. It pushes an even heavier bullet even faster than 8.6BLK.
8.6BLK: 160gr 2400fps
375R: ~250gr 2400fps
Thats 80% more energy! Wow, wasn't expecting such a large difference. 1:8 - 1:6.5 twist bbls are avail that don't have supersonic jacket shedding concerns like the 1:3 of 8.6BLK.

Bear in mind that the 338 bullet for the 8.6 does a lot more than just the velocities and energy. Expansion plays a large part too.

It's the same thing as a 110gr Hornady VMax in a 300BLK versus a 165gr SGK in a 308. You're comparing 2 completely different calibers, bullet weights, and velocities.

 

[smdub]

Bear in mind that the 338 bullet for the 8.6 does a lot more than just the velocities and energy. Expansion plays a large part too.

It's the same thing as a 110gr Hornady VMax in a 300BLK versus a 165gr SGK in a 308. You're comparing 2 completely different calibers, bullet weights, and velocities.

Same velocity in my example between 8.6 and 375R but I understand what you are saying.
But w/ the 1:3 twist you can't use a HP or jacketed 8.6 super. So expansion is non-existent. It relies solely on tumbling as I understand it.
The 8.6 is an interesting round. But I'm still not grasping (yet) what its really good at. If its just the spin for subsonic bullets, the same could be done w/ other calibers.
375R is made from 308 brass w/o even having to saw cut it. I have tons of that sitting around. My 6.5CM brass is precious

 

[lazarus]

Same velocity in my example between 8.6 and 375R but I understand what you are saying.
But w/ the 1:3 twist you can't use a HP or jacketed 8.6 super. So expansion is non-existent. It relies solely on tumbling as I understand it.
The 8.6 is an interesting round. But I'm still not grasping (yet) what its really good at. If its just the spin for subsonic bullets, the same could be done w/ other calibers.
375R is made from 308 brass w/o even having to saw cut it. I have tons of that sitting around. My 6.5CM brass is precious

Basically the "longest range" subsonic you can reasonably get. Because of the very long, very high BC 338 bullets, you can squeeze entire feet of extra range shooting subsonic for the same drop.

Really all I see is squeezing blood from a rock. A 208gr 300BO versus a 300gr 8.6BO in terms of drop and wind drift at similar ranges, the difference is really not all that remarkable. Either one, past about 100yds and you rapidly get into calling in artillery fire. You are talking a couple of inches difference at 400yds, when you already have >200 inches of drop.

The 375 Raptor with a 350gr bullet is right there too with both.

If you cast, then the 375 is far superior than either. For all of them, you are talking diameter and bullet weight are the deciding factors for how hard they hit. The 8.6 is carrying about 45% more energy than the 300BO, but the Raptor is carrying about 25% more energy than the 8.6. The 8.6 is running 30% more meplat area than the 300 is. The 375 is running 23% more than the 8.6.

Sure some states you can use subs for deer, so long as the diameter is big enough. But you can't in MD.

But you CAN run some of the BIG boys like the 450/458, 500 as well as .45-70 with some big bullets to get MD legal. Anything at 500gr and 1050fps is >1200ft-lbs.

IMHO, for subs, it is all a game of squeezing blood from a rock for really any purposes once you want to jump from the 300BO to anything heavier and bigger. The 300 BO is already pretty darned good for subs. Components are incredibly common. So many options and relatively low prices compared to any of the big boys for subs.

If interested, I see no reason not to try one of them out. I just don't see a reason to for myself.

If I really want a decent sub-sonic varmint whacker that is semi-auto, then a 45acp AR PPC is the way to go. There is off the shelf inexpensive subsonic (in a rifle length barrel) 230gr of all varieties. Tons of casting options. It doesn't need much powder because of the small case. You are running a big ole bullet. Is the BC low? For sure, but 100yds and in, frankly it just doesn't make much of a difference. And expansion with many JHP choices is going to be decent. And if you want explosive expansion, casting a softer 230-255gr HP bullet is a cinch. Or don't have a big suppressor? Okay, 9mm PCC still has better results generally than 300BO on something like a ground hog at reasonable subsonic hunting ranges of 100yds and in. And also tons of subsonic load choices without having to handload.

Even a few 45acp and 9mm bolt guns out there. Rare, but there are a few. And there are delayed blowback options for both too for semis to reduce gas and port pop for quieter suppressed shooting.

 

[RRomig]

I was also looking at getting into the 6.8. It would be for night hunting varmints and hogs. The energy is great but the rainbow ballistics is a deal breaker. Because zero to three hundred yrds or more is on the table for that game I’ll stay supersonic with the 6.5 and use my 300 blk when I’m around my place.

 

[smdub]

Basically the "longest range" subsonic you can reasonably get. Because of the very long, very high BC 338 bullets, you can squeeze entire feet of extra range shooting subsonic for the same drop.

My reading indicates the 8.6 can't take the really long high BC 338 projectiles.

 

[Growler215]

Sure some states you can use subs for deer, so long as the diameter is big enough. But you can't in MD.

But you CAN run some of the BIG boys like the 450/458, 500 as well as .45-70 with some big bullets to get MD legal. Anything at 500gr and 1050fps is >1200ft-lbs.

It's crazy that in MD my 450 Bushmaster rifle with 425 gr Maker bullets at 1100 fps isn't legal for deer, but if I run 280 gr Maker bullets in my 350 Legend pistol at 1061 fps, it's gtg.

 

[lazarus]

It's crazy that in MD my 450 Bushmaster rifle with 425 gr Maker bullets at 1100 fps isn't legal for deer, but if I run 280 gr Maker bullets in my 350 Legend pistol at 1061 fps, it's gtg.

Stupid is as stupid does. My best guess is the reasoning is that in a pistol, your shots "have to be close". Whereas in a long gun, your shots might be a lot longer.

With a scope I could shoot my 6" Dan Wesson 44 mag accurately at longer ranges, but with irons, my limit is about 40yds with a rest. I can put a cylinder into a dinner plate at that distance. I'd be much more comfortable at more like 30yds and in (20ish if I had no rest, even a knee). I haven't shot any 44 magnum rifles, but plenty of rifles in general, and 100+yds is not a problem, especially with a rest.

Once you get down to "marginal" rounds like a .357, well a 125gr 357 magnum at 100yds from a 16" rifle has about the velocity that said same round did from a 6" pistol at 25yds. A 110 would be less velocity at 100 from the rifle than the 6" pistol does at 25. A 158, a little more velocity from the rifle at 100 than the pistol at 25.

So, I guess sort of best guess DNR's thought is, you need the much higher energy out of a long gun, because most hunters are able and willing to take the longer shots. I personally wouldn't be taking shots on deer with a 357 at 100yds as I'd think that would be marginal (not saying it cannot get the jump done, but not for me).

A 30 carbine soft point has no problem on deer within 100yds for sure, but not legal in MD out of an M1 carbine (but legal out of some of the revolvers chambered in it). They have to set the standard somehow, somewhere, to at least try to stop the dumbest of things. Otherwise some idiot is going to be using a 32acp out of a rifle and giving an NRP grief because they are using greater than a 22 caliber centerfire cartridge to hunt deer if that was the standard.