.308 vs .300 Win Mag vs 6.5 grendel sniper?

[BUFF7MM]

umm, so....I'm looking for a rifle to hunt these things...
View attachment 69630

No rifle required, just a bag and some gullible participant.

 

[mranaya]

In regards *Sniper* , yes that is *right* . But in common usage even among gun people as quasi-generic for " long range, accurate , suitable for unknow/ field estimated distances , and light enough for one person to carry " .and to confuse things even more often LE and even Mil will call their actual Sniper rifles by some other euphanism.

Boomstick? Did you just say Boomstick? That, my friend, is a Winchester 30-06--Gary Larson

 

[mranaya]

Oh yea. Totally calls for a Barrett .50 cal. One can never be too sure with those things. Shoot one and turn your back on him, for even a second...it's all over. I've seen it.

umm, so....I'm looking for a rifle to hunt these things...
View attachment 69630

 

[bean93x]

You mean long distance marksman rifle? sniper rifles are those things they use in call of duty..

my helpful input is, i'd rather have a 300 win mag at 1000yds than a .308...

 

[Franklin]

umm, so....I'm looking for a rifle to hunt these things...
View attachment 69630

I will shuck you out a Benjamin if I can see you shoot a timberdoodle with a rifle!!! Might give you 3..lol

 

[Franklin]

You are thinking of snipe hunting! That is the original great American pass time!! But that isn't a snipe? Woodcock or timberdoodle depending where you are.

 

[mranaya]

You mean long distance marksman rifle? sniper rifles are those things they use in call of duty..

my helpful input is, i'd rather have a 300 win mag at 1000yds than a .308...

Something like this? Atec pointed me toward one of these. The Lapua would be a blast to shoot, but the 300 would be affordable to shoot. What to do?

 

[smokey]

Something like this? Atec pointed me toward one of these. The Lapua would be a blast to shoot, but the 300 would be affordable to shoot. What to do?

u ever check out this in 260 rem?
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRP
http://www.gunsamerica.com/986221389/Savage+12+LRP+Long+Rrange+Precision+DBM+260+Rem+NEW!.htm

 

[E.Shell]

I've heard only good things about the .338, except the price of the ammo.

A large amount of the performance praise "heard" about the .338 Lapua is hype, and many/most folks who buy one cannot find a place to shoot far enough to even tell if it performs in real life as in legend. They just shoot it at a hundred yards or a thousand and repeat the legends. Actually, most shooters cannot find a place to shoot far enough to see it will equal a good .300 WinMag rifle/load.

Bigger is not always better.

And I just did a quick search and found a nice looking .300 Weatherby with a tactical stock--also pricey ammo. Here's where the pay-to-play rule comes in. But the .300 rum you mentioned has decently priced (half that of .300 Weatherby) ammo. Thanks for the info.

The .300 Weatherby Mag and .300 Remington Ultra Mag are of higher capacity than the .300 Winchester Mag. They are not offered with precision long range loadings and the cost of ammo is substantial. Unless you handload, the .300 WinMag is going to be both cheaper, more accurate and more pleasant to shoot than the bigger .30s.

Don't forget about the 6.5 Creedmoor.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent cartridge, although a bit redundant when we consider that it almost equals the .260's ballistic performance. Both the Creedmoor and .260 are much more cartridge than the 6.5 Grendell. Comments pertaining to the larger capacity Creedmoor & .260 do not necessarily pertain to the Grendel.

The REPR is a "Rapid Engagement Precision Rifle", not a sniper rifle.

QFT, and while a piston drive has advantages, finest precision is not it's strong point.

A Remington 700 PSS in .308 with some reasonable quality glass, a trigger upgrade, and cheek rest is probably the least expensive way to enter the "sport".

Absolutely. An $1,100 rifle with a $900 scope on $250 worth of mounts will just about do it all.

I have read so many assertions that the .308 is the more common "sniper" rifle used in combat today. However, your description sounds more plausible, given the often cited 800-meter effective limits of .308 rifles--especially those with less-than 24" barrels, such as the REPR.

The .308 has a lot going for it: mild recoil, reasonable muzzle blast, excellent accuracy, long barrel life, easy cleaning, good factory match ammo around, but can also be fed crap ammo if necessary.

FWIW, the "effective range" number that is often bantered about is a product of sniper error budget analysis. The analysis is based on the number of rounds fired by the average tactical military marksman versus hits versus correction methods. Much greater precision is possible with our equipment than what was allowed for the evaluations, especially better glass and refined techniques available 'outside the box'.

A skilled rifleman will have no problem making first round hits substantially beyond the 800 meter barrier with his precision .308 and good ammo. Ask anyone who shoots F-Class 'T/TR' and they'll tell you they have no problem at all running a .308 at 800/900/1,000 yards. The wind deflection gets ugly, but that's a large part of the long range challenge.

One issue that plagues the short barreled .308s is not precision, but the increasing extreme velocity spreads we see as we allow less barrel time to completely and consistently burn the powder. I have a 20" M700 LTR and it shoots well as far as we want to shoot it, we just have to dial on another 15% elevation when we get out there a ways. We get 16" and 18" .308s and the vertical dispersion (due to velocity spreads) gets ridiculous by the time we get to 800 yards.

The .300 WinMag, even with FGMM 190s, can shoot well beyond 1,400 yards and enjoys about 2/3rds of the wind deflection of a .308 at any distance.

So now I have several longer range options to consider and enough information to go shopping. The best choice for me will likely be the most gun that I can find for the money, whether a high end .338 Lapua sharply discounted or a built-up Remington 700, also sharply discounted. I won't limit any options at this point--not even the REPR at the right price. At the same time, I will probably keep ammo prices in mind.

Thanks for all of the great input. There is a lot of experience and knowledge on this website.

No real need to have a Remington (PSS/5R) or Savage "built-up", all of these rifles typically shoot well without a lot of tinkering.

The popularity of .308 is a cart/ horse situation . It has not only readily available match grade ammo available , but from multiple mfgs so they can bid against each other. Lets agencies avoid handloads and have ready supply of ammo. Everything else is single source or handload only. As a civialin , once you accept that you will be handloading , the only constraints are availability of parent brass and bullets.

Yup.

The various 6.5s will have similar trajectory to .300WM, both of which flatter than .308.

Yes, definitely flatter than a .308, and much better in the wind, but only comparable to the .300 WinMag when we discuss the 6.5x55 and .65-284 (140/142 at 2,975). The .260 is a step down from those two (140/142 at 2,825), and the 6.5 Creedmoor is another very small step down from that (140/142 at 2,775).

The 6.5 Grendel is rather anemic compared to the above , and it's actual claim to fame is making the AR-15 shoot almost as good as a .308 at long range. In other words, it is designed to make the most of a rather limited platform when long range work is desired. The Grendel will not even shoot a 140/142 class bullet, and the heaviest (most ballistically efficient) bullet recommended is the 123, and one would be lucky to get 2,500 from even this light a bullet. By contrast, a .260 would likely send a 123 at nearly 3,000 fps (I get 2,950 from a Norma 130). Big difference, but a great LR cartridge for the AR gunner.

James Bailey shot one for awhile and probably kept thorough data, perhaps he'll chime in with some real world 1k drop data. At 1k, the standard .308 match load with a 175 SMK at 2,600 fps will require about 39 moa at sea level.

The difference is then retained energy. What do you want your bullet to do at 1,000yd ? Paper? Small deer? Large Elk? Large Bison? Small armoured vehicles?

Back on track...This^^.

If terminal effect is not important, and to most of us it is not, the choices then revolve around stuff like barrel life, recoil, absolute precision, anticipated distances and other mundane details.

ok ,im new, so well take it easy on me. i personaly own and shoot a 6.5 grendel ,as far as that goes 600yrds is deadly accurate to a chipmunk, and steadily fades to 2feet at 1400 yards. yes they do go that far! my barrel and bolt are AA,18" with holland break, the rest is just a bastardized ar-15.sub moa 100yards. now my jd machine .308 chambered in 6.5creedmoor is stupid accurate, just cut everything mentioned before in half, and im not talking about distance!

Hard to beat the 6.5 CM, .260, 6.5x55 and 6.5-284 cartridges, except that we will pay with barrel life.

i know you want autoloader stuff, but the ar-30 in 300win mag is a beast, however its 22 pounds with all its goodies. 1000 yards 4" groups easy,if properly accurized.

I've shot several of the AR-30s in .300WinMag and the recoil is surprisingly mild. Very easy gun to shoot, but does usually need a little work to be at it's best.

my.308 aac-sd 700 +900 yards max for any reasonable accuracy at all.

It should shoot better than that...what kind of ammo?

ok, so you can tell im a 6.5 fan, but i chose the 300wm as my favorite long range(its not a sniper rifle unless your shooting people= bad term to use)rifle cuz its cheaper than 338 and shoots farther than my optics will go!

For 99% of long range shooters out there, it is tough to do any better than a good shooting .300 WinMag. I would not want it for my primary gun, since the .308 is much more pleasant to shoot, clean and feed, but for the longest **practical** reach and most bang for the buck, it beats anything else in it's class.

but for ar style guns the grendel it a storm of awesomness!

Precisely, it does make the best of a platform designed for other stuff. The only thing is that if we are NOT limited to an AR-15, the Grendel is a distant second to almost everything else we'd consider for long range.

.....my helpful input is, i'd rather have a 300 win mag at 1000yds than a .308...

If all of the shots were at or beyond 1,000, and they were each critical, then yes, I'm with you on that. To learn and practice on the average venues, I'd start with a .308.

Something like this? Atec pointed me toward one of these. The Lapua would be a blast to shoot, but the 300 would be affordable to shoot. What to do?

Go .300 WinMag if you go to that platform, but that's a lot more cash than you have to spend to get the performance. A Remington 5R or PSS in .300 WinMag is less than half that price and likely to shoot just as well.

I'd allow a little gunsmithing money for the factory Remington if you went that way.

The OEM trigger can probably be improved with patience and skill, but those qualities will cost you as much as a RifleBasix drop in unit and you'll still have a Remington trigger. Just don't go too light (3#+/-).

The OEM recoil pad should be removed and a little weight added to the cavity. While it apart, check length of pull and have the adjustment made by either trimming the stock or adding a thicker buttplate/recoil pad.

The aluminum bedding block should be skim bedded to enhance precision.

 

[mranaya]

Wow, this is exactly (more) than what I was hoping to find in answers to my questions. Huge thanks!

From reading this, the 300 Win Mag looks like the way to go for longer ranges, but the 308 might be the way to go for a variety of shooting. And I will avoid the Grendel unless looking to build up an AR. I really like tactical stocks; yes, eye candy is part of the enjoyment for me. So I will look around for a .300 Win Mag Rem 700 PSS/R5 or a semi-auto 308 with a 24"+ barrel. I'll still keep the .50 BMG or .338 Lapua in mind, as something to have and rarely shoot, in case a great deal jumps out one day--it's a sickness.

Again, all great information that really put things into perspective for me.

 

[mranaya]

I've been reading about this Colt M2012 CLR--very nice. But this article brought up tube guns, fully customizable long-range bolt action rifles (Eliseo RTS Tubegun Chassis [$1020.00] with a Rem-clone custom action [$900.00] and a Krieger barrel [$550.00 chambered]) that come in under $2500. Not sure they are what I want, but seem to be an interesting option.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-clr-competition-bolt-gun-with-cooper-action/

Eliseo RTS Tubegun Chassis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LX58lzXKxk