300 Blackout loading/shooting report

[John from MD]

I have not seen too many references to loading 2400 so I did some experimenting. The reason I wanted some 2400 loads is that I use a good bit of it in reduced loads for military rifles as well as 44 spl and 44 mag. The barrel I used is a SOTA Arms 1 in 8 twist with a .120 gas port. For a cheap barrel, I was impressed at the workmanship and the smoothness of the bore. I had a 4x scope and was shooting from a bench rest.

I was using the Lee 155 grain, normal lube groove w/ gas check, started at 14gns of powder and maxed out at 16. The range scrap bullets were sized to .310, lubed in a Saeco lubrisizer with my own mix. Additionally, I loaded twenty up that were lubed with ALOX. Case length was 1.360. COAL was 2.058 for Hornady jacketed and 2.005 for the Lee 155gn lead bullets.

I had loaded 100 rounds with 2400, several with Red Dot powder (4.5 to 6 gns) and had my base load of 16.5 grains of 4227 as a reference. I got some interesting results to say the least.

Here are some chrono results with five round strings.

4227 powder

150 Hornady FMJBT, 16.5gns, 1895 FPS average, ES 7.7. No, that is not a typo. I did it again and got and ES of 8.5.
155 Lee GC lead spire point, 16.0gns, 1680 FPS average ES 26
These two loads will cycle the action with an standard or H2 buffer. The H2 keeps the brass closer. :mrgreen:

2400 powder

155 Lee GC lead spire point, Saeco lubed, 14gns, 1845 FPS, ES 26, barely cycled action with standard buffer and spring, 3 inches at 50 yards.
155 Lee GC lead spire point, Saeco lubed, 14.5 gns, 1880 FPS, barely cycled action, 2.5 inches at 50 yards.
155 Lee GC lead spire point, Saeco lubed, 15 gns, 1990 FPS, ES 20, cycled action fine, 1 inch group at 50 yards.
155 Lee GC lead spire point, ALOX lubed, 15 gns, 1910 FPS, ES 22, cycled action fine, accuracy same as Saeco lubed.
155 Lee GC lead spire point, ALOX lubed, 15.5 gns, 1913 FPS, cycled action fine, best group of the day. @1/2 inch
155 Lee GC lead spire point, ALOX lubed, 16 gns, 2000 FPS, ES 13, blew one primer and had light ejector marks. Group much the same as 15.5 gns.

Red Dot powder. I didn't record the info but 6.0 gns gave me 1000 some FPS and a nice 1 inch group at 50 yards. I had to hand cycle, which is what I expected but the group and noise level was great for nuisance critters around the house.

What really surprised me was that the only leading I could find was on the rear of the bolt and it wasn't much. Even the back of the BCD did not have any. It had a bunch of carbon though. All of my loads fed fine through my Vietnam bring back 20 round magazines. I have some P mags on order but it looks like I won't need them.

I plan to work between 15 and 15.5 grains at longer distances in the spring and I will post my results then.

Regards,

John

 

[Sticky]

Interesting, thanks for posting John! I never thought of using 2400 for the 300. I have loaded some supers, but was waiting for some A1680 for loading subs, as I have heard that this is the best choice for getting the gun to cycle with subs and I finally scored some, so I need to get down and spend some time at the bench and load up some sub ammo to try out in my 300blk.

I have a 10.5" bbl on an AR pistol in 300AAC that I am loading for once the weather breaks a little and hunting season is over. I have a bunch of different boolits to load up, both sub and supers, and a couple different powders to try out, but I mostly want to get that pistol eating subs reliably.

Keep the info and feedback coming, I'm still digesting and learning about this round..

 

[Russ D]

Thanks for posting your hard work and great results.

 

[Winterborn]

Interesting, thanks for posting John! I never thought of using 2400 for the 300. I have loaded some supers, but was waiting for some A1680 for loading subs, as I have heard that this is the best choice for getting the gun to cycle with subs and I finally scored some, so I need to get down and spend some time at the bench and load up some sub ammo to try out in my 300blk.

I have a 10.5" bbl on an AR pistol in 300AAC that I am loading for once the weather breaks a little and hunting season is over. I have a bunch of different boolits to load up, both sub and supers, and a couple different powders to try out, but I mostly want to get that pistol eating subs reliably.

Keep the info and feedback coming, I'm still digesting and learning about this round..

With a pistol gas system, subs are much less finicky. I have successfully loaded subs (and gotten the gun to cycle) with Lil Gun, 4227, and H110 with my 7.5" barrel 300 BLK.

 

[coopermania]

John, Where are you getting the carbon ? On the brass neck ?
And what are the components of the lube you are making please ?

 

[John from MD]

John, Where are you getting the carbon ? On the brass neck ?
And what are the components of the lube you are making please ?

When I start getting hard brass, the carbon shows up on the neck of the case, you get some gas blowback and groups open. This is usually the rule with my reduced lead bullet loads. I generally shoot them at 1600 to 1700 FPS.

As to my lube formula, unfortunately that is lost to the ages. I made about 25 pounds of it some years ago and lost the formula during a house moving. I now am down to about 5 pounds but it is no matter as I am starting to use the powder coat process on my bullets.

From the reports I have read, the process is simple and clean and saves all the time of lubing in my Saeco Lubrisizer. Yea!

 

[coopermania]

When I start getting hard brass, the carbon shows up on the neck of the case, you get some gas blowback and groups open. This is usually the rule with my reduced lead bullet loads. I generally shoot them at 1600 to 1700 FPS.

As to my lube formula, unfortunately that is lost to the ages. I made about 25 pounds of it some years ago and lost the formula during a house moving. I now am down to about 5 pounds but it is no matter as I am starting to use the powder coat process on my bullets.

From the reports I have read, the process is simple and clean and saves all the time of lubing in my Saeco Lubrisizer. Yea!

Ahhhh.. This is what I don't understand, If you annealed after forming and final trim you would have softer necks and most likely not have the blow back issue. As involved in your reloading as you are it surprises me that you don't anneal every second or third loading before you start have blow back.
So with you not using your sizer I assume you are going to powder coat your bullets as cast ?

 

[John from MD]

I don't anneal as often as I should because I shoot too often and too many calibers. I don't compete anymore as I am too arthritic and poor sighted so, while my guns can shoot MOA, I no longer can.

Just to show how many calibers I still load and shoot for, here is a list.

Pistol: .32ACP, .32H&R Mag, .38Spl, 9x18mm, 9x19mm, .40S&W, .44Spl, .44Mag, .45ACP, 45Colt.

Rifle: .223, 300 AAC, 30-30, 8x57mm, 7.62x54mm.

Shotgun: 28ga, 12ga.

See why I don't anneal as I should. BTW, I make the bullets for everything I shoot except .223. So if I can save time by painting my bullets vs lubing them, I am all for it.

Regards,

John

 

[Melnic]

Question, if your having to manually cycle already with a reduced load, can you neck size only? Do they make a 300blk neck size die?

 

[John from MD]

Question, if your having to manually cycle already with a reduced load, can you neck size only? Do they make a 300blk neck size die?

You don't need a separate neck size die just to neck size. You can back off the standard full length size die, smoke the neck of the case and adjust the die down until you size as much neck as you want.

This works fine with bolt guns but for the AR platform it probably isn't worth the effort. The original reason for neck sizing was for better accuracy. We are talking sub MOA type accuracy from the bench. The AR not usually used in the bench rest discipline although it certainly could be but not with the 300 Blackout cartridge.

The other thing to consider is that you don't have much leverage using the cocking handle on the AR. If you neck size and get harder extraction, you don't have much umpf to yank the case out.

As far as manually cycling, I only have to do that on my Red Dot loads that i make for shooting varmints around the house. All the other loads I make for my 300 Blackout cycle the action with no problems. These are all supersonic loads as I don't have a can on the upper.

John

 

[coopermania]

Sure I understand why you would not anneal all the time. I am more curious to see how much time it takes to powder coat 250 bullets over sizing and lubing 250 bullets. I also have looked into many different coatings over the years and it seems to just be another process to go through.
Do you plan to coat as cast bullets ? So many other guys seem to powder coat and then run there bullets though the sizer. Thus adding another step to the process. I myself just find a alloy along with the correct lube and really have never had any leading issues with smokeless loads. Now with black powder cartridge rifles 45-70 & 45-90 in the hot summer sun that's a whole other problem. Lol.
Again I am very curious to see how this works for you sir. I also use a Saeco luber because I needed a .460 sizer and they were the only company that made that size. Otherwise I just a old Lyman that was my grandfathers.

 

[Winterborn]

Sure I understand why you would not anneal all the time. I am more curious to see how much time it takes to powder coat 250 bullets over sizing and lubing 250 bullets. I also have looked into many different coatings over the years and it seems to just be another process to go through.
Do you plan to coat as cast bullets ? So many other guys seem to powder coat and then run there bullets though the sizer. Thus adding another step to the process.

Its actually quicker for me to PC than it is to lube, but then I don't have a lubrisizer.

My old method of tumble lubing takes several hours to a couple days depending on how quickly the lube dries. If I lube, size, then lube again before shooting, it takes several days.

With powdercoating, you can cast, waterdrop, dry, then spray with powdercoat and bake for 15min. Waterdrop again and you can size with no lube and have bullets ready to load within an hour or so. Much faster than tumble lube, wait to dry, size, wait to dry......

For myself, PCing is much easier and faster.

 

[John from MD]

Do you plan to coat as cast bullets ?

Most of my molds drop bullets that I can use as is. They are .002 to .003 over bore and I can use liquid alox if I choose to. My Lyman .44 215 gn molds drop at .430 and I have to bump them up to .432 in the SAECO or I would use Alox on them also.

Since I am not shooting matches anymore, I only care about keeping them in the black and can shoot 2 to 3 MOA ( with a scope) off my elbows for rifle and can shoot two inch 25 yard groups with my pistols off the bench.

I don't even cull my pistol bullets as almost anything will give me the accuracy I am looking for. If the PC bullets will give me 3 MOA, I'm happy.

BTW, I am not using the wet or spray versions of PC. I am using the Dry Tumble method but instead of using the tumbler, I am going to swish them around in a plastic tuperware tub. Then all I do is dump them on a screen paper holder (from office depot) and cook for 15-20 minutes at 400*.

Empty the screen and add a bunch more. See how much faster it is vs even using ALOX as you get all messy and have to wait for them to dry and then they are sticky. Well, you know what I mean.

With the bullet mold I am using for the 300 Blackout, I won't be able to load as cast w/PC as they are already .310. However, I am planning to order a mold custom five cavity, flat base mold that will drop WW metal to .308. Then I will be able to PC as cast and load and shoot.

Regards,

John

 

[coopermania]

Ok, I have never used a Lee mold or Alox because of the sticky mess. On smokeless I use a old Lyman lube/sizer with a heater and hard lube. I can just pile them up in a plastic tub. It is starting to look like a lot of guys who cast with Lee molds that cast bullets for Alox bullets are going to PC bullets. Or maybe it just looks that way to me. I would probably load a few .310 bullets that were PC and see how they did. Its a shame you don't need to cast larger bullets because I would send you a few pounds of Linotype / Babbitt metal to give you larger bullets. Or if you want to try some harder metal send me a PM.......And again please post your results with PC. Thanks

 

[John from MD]

Ok, I have never used a Lee mold or Alox because of the sticky mess. On smokeless I use a old Lyman lube/sizer with a heater and hard lube. I can just pile them up in a plastic tub. It is starting to look like a lot of guys who cast with Lee molds that cast bullets for Alox bullets are going to PC bullets. Or maybe it just looks that way to me. I would probably load a few .310 bullets that were PC and see how they did. Its a shame you don't need to cast larger bullets because I would send you a few pounds of Linotype / Babbitt metal to give you larger bullets. Or if you want to try some harder metal send me a PM.......And again please post your results with PC. Thanks

Thanks for the offer but I have a supply lino, tin and antimony that I don't use as I find softer bullets obdurate better. I am not shooting at high velocity these days as my arthritic shoulders can't take the recoil.

I will keep everyone up on how my PC program goes. I was going to pick up paint at HF today but life got in the way. Next chance will be on Monday.

Regards,

John

 

[Marauder]

John, nice report! I've been wanting to jump into 300Blk.