.277 Fury/6.8x51- School me

[Ponder_MD]

I'm not a ballistics guy. The Navy gave me ammo and I shot it. End of story. Now, in my private life I enjoy learning about this stuff.

The new Sig Army Service Rifle is supposed to be this major game changer. When I compare it to 7.62x51 and .30-06, the chamber pressure is much, much higher. I see that the case is 3 pieces, with a steel section to handle the higher pressures. In other respects, it seems similar to 7.62x51 and .30-06, depending on what grain bullet is used, etc. I'm betting these 3-piece cases can't be easily reloaded, if at all. (just thinking of civilian applications)

Is this cartridge as scary as Sig and the Army are hyping it up to be or do you think it's a gov't boondoggle? I'm really asking more about the cartridge than the rifle. I know the rifle has been discussed ad nauseam.

 

[ken792]

They wanted something supersonic much further than the 7.62 and able to defeat what are basically Level IV plates at closer ranges with tungsten carbide core loadings. The contractors came up with just that.

The two piece cases can probably be reloaded using roller sizers or maybe collets.

The Army also adopted a conventional brass cased loading with lower chamber pressures for training and where enemies aren’t expected to use body armor.

 

[Ponder_MD]

They wanted something supersonic much further than the 7.62 and able to defeat what are basically Level IV plates at closer ranges with tungsten carbide core loadings. The contractors came up with just that.

Oh, I didn't know about the tungsten core. Yeah, that is pretty scary.

My understanding is that the cartridge was developed to defeat Russian body armor. But...does Russia even bother equipping many of their troops with body armor? They treat their soldiers like pure fodder. They barely equip or train them at all, let alone give them bouji equipment. Was this a solution in search of a problem?

Also, is this ammo commonly available to civilians yet? It sure AF should be.

 

[ken792]

Oh, I didn't know about the tungsten core. Yeah, that is pretty scary.

My understanding is that the cartridge was developed to defeat Russian body armor. But...does Russia even bother equipping many of their troops with body armor? They treat their soldiers like pure fodder. They barely equip or train them at all, let alone give them bouji equipment. Was this a solution in search of a problem?

Also, is this ammo commonly available to civilians yet? It sure AF should be.

Russia may not field it for everyone, but they have it. The Chinese also started procuring armor in 2020.

Chinese Army to procure 1.4 million body armor units in 2 years - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

Anyone with internet can get Chinese “Level IV” for as little as $100 plate. It may not be NIJ rated or held to the same QC as western armor, but it does a decent job stopping 5.56. The western armor supplied to Ukraine is probably not all ending up where it’s intended to either.

 

[Archeryrob]

I have read the 277 fury for civilian use will be all brass cases and a lower psi rating. I think taking a 308 case and necking it down to 277 made is a hot rod. The steel 2 piece back end cases might just be military issue only, but I have no idea, but we know they do not reload. So they are probably scrap.

There is videos of the corruption failures with Russian body and tank armor being way less than acceptable.

 

[85MikeTPI]

The cases have popped up on the reloading circuits

Shop - American Reloading

americanreloading.com

I haven’t seen any 277 or 308 tungsten projectiles on the aftermarket, I think so much FUD is out there about their legality. I have seen the EBC steel projectiles (.223/.308) being sold though.

 

[Sirex]

A few places, like Classic are pushing the new Sig rifle, Spear I think, albeit in 7.62x51, hard. I looked all over Gunbroker, and I see a bunch of .277 Fury ammo from Sig, but I couldn't find a single rifle chambered in it. Not even the Sig Spear. Not sure who they're trying to sell the .277 civilian ammo to.

 

[4g64loser]

A few places, like Classic are pushing the new Sig rifle, Spear I think, albeit in 7.62x51, hard. I looked all over Gunbroker, and I see a bunch of .277 Fury ammo from Sig, but I couldn't find a single rifle chambered in it. Not even the Sig Spear. Not sure who they're trying to sell the .277 civilian ammo to.

Seen a couple guys chamber boltguns for it already. Personally, I don't intend to. The only way I'd be interested is if I could get the tungsten projos to load. I'll just have to be happy with M995 7.62x51 ammo.

 

[AlBeight]

A few places, like Classic are pushing the new Sig rifle, Spear I think, albeit in 7.62x51, hard. I looked all over Gunbroker, and I see a bunch of .277 Fury ammo from Sig, but I couldn't find a single rifle chambered in it. Not even the Sig Spear. Not sure who they're trying to sell the .277 civilian ammo to.

Sig Cross. Haven’t seen one in the wild but plenty online that I’ve noticed for sale.

 

[DavidA]

From what I gather, I have seen standard pressure SIG 277 Fury for sale. I have run some ballistics on a standard pressure 277 Fury, it is superior to 308 win and runs with 260 rem in 20" LR308 gas guns. They are ever so close. So 277 Fury standard rounds are capable of being fired in standard rem 700 actions and LR308 actions. While I would probably think boot gins could handel 277 Fury high pressure cases, LR308 BCG would be suspect. I sort of wanted a 277 x 08 but no manufacturers supported it . Now that Sig is making it , I think it is a great round for a LR308 platform. The only thing that is stopping me is that I already have 3 rifles in 260 rem and 3 rifles in 308 win . Along with 400 Peterson 260 rem brass. Nice thing about 277 based rounds is you have tons of hunting bullets to choose from , thanks to the 270 win.

As far as ballistics using a 140 gr Bulldozer 2 bullet, at a muzzell velocity of 2,820 fps 20" barrel, it is traansonic to 1,400 yds and supersonic to 1,500 yds at sea level. At 400 yds sea level, 2,291 fps and 1,632 ft lbs. Drift at 1,000 yds, 1.57 mils. For me the 260 rem with a 22" barrel just barely inches this out with a 147 eld m . With 1.650 ft lbs at 400 yds. If I back it off to a 20" barrel the Sig will beat it . Of course, these are all very high bc bullets. The Bulldozer 2 is a crazy high bc bullet. G7 .333.

The bottom line is they spank then 308 win at 1,000 yds. At 400 yds for hunting, the 308 win with a 180 berger elite hunter ,with a muzzel velocity of 2,661 fps, has a velocity of 2,086 fps with 1,740 ft lbs. so the 308 still wins a hunting at practical distances. For long range 1,000 yd shooting, the 260 rem and 277 furry would rule.

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