223 & Speed of Sound

[Biggfoot44]

.223 Subsonics - Can it be done ? Is there a useful need ? Heck regardless of need ballistic experementation is a good thing for its own sake.

Talk about handloading theory, not factory loadrd ammo.

Ps - A .300 Whisper/ Blackout/ Fireball/ etc necked down to .224 is a .221 Remington Fireball, not a 5.56. And actually a .221 case with its smaller capacity would have interesting possabilities as far as pressues and pressure curves for subsonics.

 

[lazarus]

Can it be done? Sure. Is there a useful need? Well, there are .22lr subsonics, so I'd say sort of. Basically a close range varmit round. I'd never use it on a deer or something like that. I'd figure you could probably take ground hogs to 50-60yds with it.

But you are talking somewhat less range than a .300 blackout due to lower BC as well as about 1/3rd the energy due to the much lower weight.

 

[Pinecone]

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=197094

 

[Fox123]

Dupe

 

[Sticky]

No, it's not a dupe, per se... the OP is trying to take the discussion from a thread promoting an IP here, where the IP was feeling threatened by the discussion, into a more open general discussion where we are free to discuss the pros and cons without rubbing a supporting manufacturer the wrong way.

I'll give my .02 worth... I don't really see the benefit over a 22lr, unless one does not have a 22lr to shoot, only a 223. I have done a lot of and continue to do a lot of experimentation with subsonics in several calibers, but I really don't see the benefit over most of the standard 22lr loadings available, from under 700fps to around 1500fps. I cast, coat and reload and could easily peruse this possibility, but I would rather spend my time, energy and $$ on a larger caliber subsonic round, like the 300AAC and the 308, which seem to make more sense from a performance on game or live targets standpoint (or even quiet plinking at the range) while still maintaining a quiet delivery using a suppressor.

I have an MP 15-22, paperwork for a can should be close to being done and that will give me similar performance to loading subs in a 223 AR platform without having to jump through hoops, the ammo is available in many different velocities presently.

My can design for the 22lr would probably work with 223 subs, but it's really not going to be capable of running full power 223 loads and I just don't see the justification, for me personally, in delving into the 223 subsonic arena.

 

[BigToe]

I wouldn't bother going through the hassle of getting a suppressor in a plinking caliber. I'd either go .300 or .45. At least a 200gr+ subsonic bullet can be put to use on something besides paper.

 

[jimbobborg]

Is the 80gr bullet the heaviest 0.224" diameter bullet out there now?

 

[smdub]

Is the 80gr bullet the heaviest 0.224" diameter bullet out there now?

Sierra makes a 90gr matchking. Googling to see if there is heavier says a 100gr existed from blackhills but can't find any more info on it. Heaviest 22LR is 60gr?? So there is at least 50% more energy to be had in the heavier 223 rounds.

 

[Praeger]

.223 Subsonics - Can it be done ? Is there a useful need ? Heck regardless of need ballistic experementation is a good thing for its own sake.

Talk about handloading theory, not factory loadrd ammo.

Ps - A .300 Whisper/ Blackout/ Fireball/ etc necked down to .224 is a .221 Remington Fireball, not a 5.56. And actually a .221 case with its smaller capacity would have interesting possabilities as far as pressues and pressure curves for subsonics.

I developed two subsonic .223 loads using pulled SS109 62 grain bullets. 4.5 grains Unique, and 4.6 grains of Lil'Gun. Both chronographed at 1080 fps. With my AAC Cyclone .30 cal suppressor both were about as quiet as my 300 BLK subs. Not surprisingly, the point of impact was quite a bit below supersonic 5.56.

Why? Just to try it. The loads won't come close to cycling the bolt and the bullet trajectory is like a rainbow. I suppose it might be handy to keep a few around in the event some varmint needed to be quietly dispatched. Just be sure to remember the holdover.

 

[Pinecone]

Is the 80gr bullet the heaviest 0.224" diameter bullet out there now?

Berger also has an 80.5 grain match bullet.

But the 80 and over need to be single loaded, as they cannot be loaded short enough to feed from a mag.

"rainbow" trajectory, it really should be similar to .22 RF.

 

[Biggfoot44]

It would still be a seperate upping, but I have long contemplated. Chambered for .221 with a long throat, to let use use long bullets at magazine length.

 

[Pinecone]

While interesting concept, I just don't see why one would bother. .22 RF and .300 BO subsonic take care of what I would need.

And if you want to go wild and crazy, why not just shorten a .223 case to allow mag length 80 grainers?

Mag length is about 2.260, 80 grain load to 2.550 according to Sierra data. So chop about 0.3" off a .223 and set the shoulder back that same amount. Lower case capacity will be no problem for subsonic loadings.

.223 Short



And I trademark that term.