2-3 day pistol course recommendations?

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  • Adenosine

    Member
    Sep 20, 2016
    52
    Where I'm at right now: Consistently freestyling 2" groups at 7 yards (10 on a good day) and getting all the shots on an 8" target at 20 yards with slow fire. Single hand performance (both strong and weak side) highly day-dependent, but anywhere from that good to 4" groups at 7 yards. Comfortable with but slow at malfunction drills (tap-rack-bang), reloads with retention, and strong-side holster draws. No formal training, but have shot on and off for a few years now and have been going to the range 2-3x a week for a couple months.

    What I'd like to learn/improve: Everything that isn't standing slow-fire. In particular, I'm interested in improving my speed at sight picture acquisition and working on firing from different positions (prone, while moving, around cover, etc.) I definitely have a lot of room for improvement in slow fire as well, but I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do there; the other stuff, I a) don't know what I don't know and b) can't really practice on an average day at the range. Would like to do some Simunition-type training as well, but that's optional.

    My learning style/preferences: Equally comfortable with paramilitary-style classes and those run in a more relaxed fashion. Have both taught and been taught in both paramilitary organizations and more college-type environments. All other things being equal, I'm a fan of intentionally introducing stress to the learning process and do well with that type of training, assuming it is done by someone who knows what they're doing (vs "I'm going to alternately read PowerPoint and scream at the class as a whole.") Willing to go anywhere within, say, fourish hours of Montgomery County.

    I know that Center Mass Combat Tactics is well-regarded here, and their classes look great, but I was hoping to do something later this year or early next, and they don't have anything scheduled. There was a recent thread about Storm Mountain Training Center, but they have the same problem. I was looking at BSR's three-day advanced pistol course, which seems to align well with what I'm looking for; any thoughts on them?

    Any other recommendations are also appreciated. Thanks!
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,693
    Glen Burnie
    There are a zillion of them out there. Hogarth is the only 1 on the forum who trains these the most. He probably hits 3-4, 2&3 day classes a year and some nearby 1 day-ers.

    You'll probably have to travel between here and the southwest for the "closest" best and most choices. Search his name and check out his "threads started" portion of his profile. He always posts very good and detailed after reports.

    The only classes I would even remotely consider from here aside from Center Mass would be http://www.ddctraining.net/. BigT5g is an IP here. What posts I read of his seem to be experienced and sound confident in ability.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,627
    Loudoun, VA
    go do some uspsa and idpa matches. no training per se, but plenty of practice (shooting on the move, reloading, malf drills, etc) and you can get some tips watching some of the good/fast guys getting it done. and if you ask for some input surely you will get some feedback on your technique.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    Ahoy!

    First of all, to Atropine, it sounds like you are doing great with the basic marksmanship stuff. Really well.

    Blaster is right in that there are a shit-ton of schools out there. Four hours from Montgomery County can get you to all the traveling road show instructors who visit WV, PA, VA, etc.

    Not a hard and fast rule, but many schools/instructors like some "proof" of basic gun handling and marksmanship competency before moving on to the shoot n scoot stuff. So, although it seems you shoot straight, I'd look at a "Pistol I" class from someone of some note who is non-controversial. Steve Fisher (Sentinel Concepts) often runs classes in WV. John Murphy (FPF Training) is down in Culpeper VA and wouldn't be a bad drive for you at all (I'll be training with him tomorrow, actually). John teaches basic classes and then moves right on through a lot of the other stuff, a good mix of classes.

    With the dissolving of Alias Training I'm not sure who will step in to fill the void as clearinghouse for Larry Vickers, Mike Pannone, Pat McNamara, Jeff Gonzales, etc. I'm hoping they get their 2017 schedules up soon. Usually 2 or more will hold classes in PA each year, sometimes out near Pittsburgh, sometimes near Bethlehem, etc.

    You can check Kyle Defoor's schedule, too, but it went live the first week of August and half the classes for 2017 sold out the first day!

    Center Mass is great but their schedule tends to not get published way in advance.

    I hear great things about Pat Goodale in WV, but he's pretty far south in WV IIRC.

    I've trained with many/most of the above and would recommend any/all. But the above is in no way exhaustive. If there are other specifics you have in mind I MIGHT be able to narrow the list or provide more help.

    I've recently started shooting IDPA (4 matches so far) and find it useful for what it is. It's not the place to learn tactics, but will give you some exposure to shooting from unconventional positions, weak hand shooting, some movement, drawing, etc, a lot if what you cannot do at your basic indoor range.

    Hit me up for more questions, if you have any. I'm a big believer in training.

    Also, as Blaster mentioned, I do write after action reviews (more for me, believe it or not), many of which are on this site. However, they plus others are also on a blog I co-write with a friend: https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com

    Not trying to guerilla market. But ALL the AARs are there mixed in with other articles, gear reviews, musings, etc.

    Keep in mind I don't do this stuff for a living.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Atropine, definitely try IDPA. It's a lot of fun, and you quickly learn weak areas that can be improved on. Classes are a great idea of course, but they are infrequent and supplementing with IDPA (or other sport shooting events) takes minimal effort and there are many opportunities in a calendar year.

    Beyond what you normally take to the range, you just need an appropriate holster, dual mag carrier, and plenty of mags. Matches cost a nominal fee to participate in (often around $20), and one can sign up for an annual membership ($40?) online to get an IDPA membership number(so you can sign-up for matches). Beginners can often hit an extra one hour briefing their first time out before participating in a match.

    ...

    Also, as Blaster mentioned, I do write after action reviews (more for me, believe it or not), many of which are on this site. However, they plus others are also on a blog I co-write with a friend: https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com

    Not trying to guerilla market. But ALL the AARs are there mixed in with other articles, gear reviews, musings, etc.

    Keep in mind I don't do this stuff for a living.

    Unless it's contrary to MDS rules, you should put your personal site in your signature. I've found it to be a good resource and appreciate you making the effort. :thumbsup:
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    Unless it's contrary to MDS rules, you should put your personal site in your signature. I've found it to be a good resource and appreciate you making the effort. :thumbsup:

    Thanks for the kind words.

    AAR from yesterday's class at FPF Training will be up sometime this week, and then I've got another course coming up in two weeks.
     

    Doobie

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 23, 2013
    1,777
    Earth
    Storm Mountain Training Center, West Virginia.

    This. I grew up 8 miles from Storm Mountain training center. I took a handgun class there back in the 90s when it first opened. Rod Ryan(CEO and head instructor) is a good guy and very knowledgeable.

    Storm Mountain Training Center
    2053 Pinnacle Road
    Elk Garden, WV 26717

    Telephone: +1 304 446 5526
    E-Mail: info@stormmountain.com
     

    Florida_11B

    Member
    Jun 10, 2016
    95
    Work sent me to a course a while back put on by a guy by the name of pat macnamera and let me tell you it was AMAZING. first off Pat is a former Delta Operator weapons specialist. Second, his style of teaching is very intense and fun, third look him up on youtube his videos speak for themselves. I had a blast. good luck
     

    AMStrick

    Active Member
    May 15, 2012
    103
    Port Tobacco
    This. I grew up 8 miles from Storm Mountain training center. I took a handgun class there back in the 90s when it first opened. Rod Ryan(CEO and head instructor) is a good guy and very knowledgeable.

    Storm Mountain Training Center
    2053 Pinnacle Road
    Elk Garden, WV 26717

    Telephone: +1 304 446 5526
    E-Mail: info@stormmountain.com


    Have bee training with SMTC for 5 years, will be going over there at the end of here month for a 3 day sustainment class. This is the place to go if you want to learn gunfighting or maintain gunfighting skills.
     

    Florida_11B

    Member
    Jun 10, 2016
    95
    I need a job with you. lol

    LOL yea its the benefit of being in the military. I have also been to A-net which is the advanced marksmanship for m4 with thermals and PSQ-20b (thermal/night vision) monocle, the US Army protective services training (nothing but high speed evasive driving and ranges with full auto SBR and pistol. it was all pretty awesome. I love teaching too that is why most of them are train the trainer. Every time i shoot i have to stop myself from trying to teach people because some don't like it lol.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    As per my post above, here is the AAR from the class I took this past Saturday, the Vehicle Environment Skills class taught by John Murphy of FPF Training:
    https://civiliangunfighter.wordpres...vironment-skills-culpeper-va-october-15-2016/

    I've got another one-day course coming up on the 29th at the same venue, Extreme Close Quarters Gunfighting with Greg Ellifritz of Active Response Training. And if you aren't following Greg's blog/website on an almost daily basis, you are wrong.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,693
    Glen Burnie
    sure. 500 is chump change. some schools do 6k in a day. that is finger bleeding worn out shooting.

    Per shooter? Name one that isn't full auto. Most I've done in a day with pistol is about 2,500. No one can keep that pace up and still give a shit where the rounds go.
     

    travistheone

    Usual Suspect
    Dec 11, 2008
    5,600
    cockeysville
    Per shooter? Name one that isn't full auto. Most I've done in a day with pistol is about 2,500. No one can keep that pace up and still give a shit where the rounds go.

    Couldn't tell you exactly but was speaking to a group of 1st group SF that all agreed 6k had been done per shooter in one day.
     

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