1943 91/30

[6pack]

I picked this up from another forum's member. It was sold as a non-import marked 91/30. It's has an arsenal's worth of different serial numbers on her but I don't see any import marks on her.

The sling pieces are screwed in.

Why isn't there an 'r' after the year?

The right side of the stock has a couple of stamps but I can't really make them out.

A lot of the parts are Izhevsk marked.

Here are some odd marks on the top of the fore grip.

So what do you think? Any thoughts on what the marks on the fore grip are?

 

[h2u]

Now this is a great looking rifle!!! I love the rough machining on the receiver. It really shows how desperate the Russians were to crank out these rifles.
Not sure of the origin, but a lot of these non-refurb/non import marked rifles came from Romania and the Balkans.

Congrats again on a great pickup and a rifle I'd love to own
Nice to see ya deviating from the snipers

 

[ken792]

The marks on the handguard are for dovetail splices to patch the crack. Someone, maybe a previous owner, made them and never put in the splices.

I think someone simply forgot to hit it with the г stamp.

What's interesting is that the rear sight base is pinned, which as I understand it was not done until after WWII. That means that the rifle went through at least one rebuild after WWII, got used some more, and then for some reason did not get rebuilt again.

It could be an import, could be a bringback.

 

[6pack]

lol, I love my snipers, but this was too inexpensive in comparison to pass up.

The machining is really rough looking. I get the feel of the Japanese last ditch rifles. I love it.

Thanks Ken. Good info! When the snipers were refurbed they get a square with an X in it. Would the regular 91/30's get this mark? I haven't seen that anywhere yet.

 

[h2u]

Rifle has seen at least one refurb post WW2, but keep in mind it spent at least 15-20yrs going through dozens of clashes we know of as, "The Cold War".

ETA-also the forging of the Iron Curtain.

 

[UpperMarlboroMan]

I have a 1943 Izhevsk with similar stamps on the wood...one with concentric rings and you can barely make out "CCCP." On mine, there is a smaller proof stamp with letters in a circle. You can even see your smaller circle stamp next to the larger "CCCP" stamp. You can see a better example at this link (not my rifle) as the stamps are really nice:

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=69250

 

[CasualObserver]

When the snipers were refurbed they get a square with an X in it. Would the regular 91/30's get this mark? I haven't seen that anywhere yet.

I've seen them both ways. Some of my refurbs have it, others not. The fact the parts are non matching serial # wise is another clue it has likely gone through refurb at some point in its life.

 

[Dave91]

Beautiful rifle. looks like it was refurbed post-ww2 and then probably had parts replaced when needed in whatever bloc country it saw service in, hence the non matching numbers. Some major refurb clues are the pinned rear sight and the prewar stock. It looks like as a whole, the rifle has been complete with those parts for a long time. Every part I can see is Izhevsk, including the stock.

Is the bolt marked? I don't see a serial number on the flat where it was usually placed.

 

[yellowsled]

Stock is def a sanded replacement stock, but I am not sold that it was a refurb.

 

[h2u]

Stock is def a sanded replacement stock, but I am not sold that it was a refurb.

Sled- I'm quite sure it's seen at least one refurb. The pinned rear sight is the key to that here. Keep in mind, after it went through a refurb post WW2, it spent 20+ yrs kicking around the Combloc countries in skirmishes both big and small.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Beautiful rifle!!!

 

[yellowsled]

Would they really do a refurb and not mark it though? That's whats getting me.

 

[Threeband]

Very nice photos of a very interesting rifle.

I really like the light and texture in some of those photos. Just beautiful.

 

[6pack]

Very nice photos of a very interesting rifle.

I really like the light and texture in some of those photos. Just beautiful.

Really!? I usually take the worst pictures ever!

 

[h2u]

lol, I love my snipers, but this was too inexpensive in comparison to pass up.

The machining is really rough looking. I get the feel of the Japanese last ditch rifles. I love it.

Thanks Ken. Good info! When the snipers were refurbed they get a square with an X in it. Would the regular 91/30's get this mark? I haven't seen that anywhere yet.

Would they really do a refurb and not mark it though? That's whats getting me.

Guys- everything we thought we knew of Russian refurb markings changed a couple of weeks ago with the new information Ruslan Chumak dug up in his research.

The, "square with X in it" as six-pack stated is not just a refurb mark. We now know it's specifically from the 2nd GRAU located in Kiev. This makes total sense as most of the refurbs we've been getting for years have been from the Ukraine. That's why the box with an X is the most prevalent refurb mark we see.

With the wear on the rifle, any refurb mark could have long since been worn away.

6pack- Take some more pics of all marks on receiver and barrel chamber area and let's see if we can find a refurb stamp on it.

 

[CasualObserver]

Guys- everything we thought we knew of Russian refurb markings changed a couple of weeks ago with the new information Ruslan Chumak dug up in his research.

The, "square with X in it" as six-pack stated is not just a refurb mark. We now know it's specifically from the 2nd GRAU located in Kiev. This makes total sense as most of the refurbs we've been getting for years have been from the Ukraine. That's why the box with an X is the most prevalent refurb mark we see.

With the wear on the rifle, any refurb mark could have long since been worn away.

6pack- Take some more pics of all marks on receiver and barrel chamber area and let's see if we can find a refurb stamp on it.

Thanks for the info h2u. Doing some searching I see there is a whole list of aresenal repair facility symbols now available on some of the other forums out there. Now I have to start looking to see what I have. Seems like some folks who paid a premium for a "DDR" might be a little disappointed.

 

[h2u]

Thanks for the info h2u. Doing some searching I see there is a whole list of aresenal repair facility symbols now available on some of the other forums out there. Now I have to start looking to see what I have. Seems like some folks who paid a premium for a "DDR" might be a little disappointed.

I paid $325+ shipping over six years ago for a, "DDR" 91/30. You know, when a standard 91/30 refurb was $70...
They were ghosts back then and I thought it would be a great addition to my collection

I changed my tune about two years ago when so many started showing up. Evidence was shown to me by some collectors I respect that cast a serious doubt on the DDR connection. As guys were buying these up over that time, I've been pointing out the meaning behind the stamps was probably flawed. But, the prices were still good with the market flooded with them, so only a small premium was charged-not like mine

Now we have a lot more info to play with and narrow down to exactly which facility performed the refurb. Pretty cool!!

Here is the list compiled this far with more to come as new ones are discovered with the ongoing research.

 

[6pack]

I'll get some more pics, H2U. This is very cool info about the various refurb arsenals. What does GRAU stand for? Arsenal?

 

[h2u]

I'll get some more pics, H2U. This is very cool info about the various refurb arsenals. What does GRAU stand for? Arsenal?

Here ya go!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRAU

 

[ken792]

Wait, according to this, pinned rear sights became standard in Izhevsk M91/30's around 1940. That means that the pinned rear sight is original to this Mosin, not a retrofit feature.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures02.htm