1849 & 1858 Revolvers

[FN509Fan]

I had some interest in Civil war era revolvers before being gifted a junk 1849 Colt Pocket revolver but the darn thing rekindled my interest. I'm looking at the Uberti 1858 NEW MDL ARMY 45 LC (replica) which appears to be available from Taylor's & Company and Cimarron importers. It appears on the MSP approved handgun list under Uberti but not under Taylor (as Remington Conversion) or Cimarron. No vendors have it as the Urberti and it's not on the list under Taylor or Cimarron while similar guns are. So I'm wondering if it has to be on the list under Taylor or Cimarron, or are all involved smart enough to realize it is the same as the Uberti.

I'm also interested to know if anyone has experience with this black powder conversion.

 

[John from MD]

I had some interest in Civil war era revolvers before being gifted a junk 1849 Colt Pocket revolver but the darn thing rekindled my interest. I'm looking at the Uberti 1858 NEW MDL ARMY 45 LC (replica) which appears to be available from Taylor's & Company and Cimarron importers. It appears on the MSP approved handgun list under Uberti but not under Taylor (as Remington Conversion) or Cimarron. No vendors have it as the Urberti and it's not on the list under Taylor or Cimarron while similar guns are. So I'm wondering if it has to be on the list under Taylor or Cimarron, or are all involved smart enough to realize it is the same as the Uberti.

I'm also interested to know if anyone has experience with this black powder conversion.
View attachment 408102

To make the most out of Cap and Ball conversion revolvers, you need to reload. Reloading allows you to adjust bullet weight and powder charge to shoot at paper punching ranges instead of at 50 yards. While Uberti and Pietta are mostly putting higher front sights on their pistols, sometimes you still can't get them to shoot factory cowboy loads well.

The conversion you are looking at is a Kirst Konverter and ejector. If you buy an 1858 revolver, you will have to file a good bit off the recoil shield if you want to use the loading gate. It is a pretty pricey combo.

 

[linkstate]

I had some interest in Civil war era revolvers before being gifted a junk 1849 Colt Pocket revolver but the darn thing rekindled my interest. I'm looking at the Uberti 1858 NEW MDL ARMY 45 LC (replica) which appears to be available from Taylor's & Company and Cimarron importers. It appears on the MSP approved handgun list under Uberti but not under Taylor (as Remington Conversion) or Cimarron. No vendors have it as the Urberti and it's not on the list under Taylor or Cimarron while similar guns are. So I'm wondering if it has to be on the list under Taylor or Cimarron, or are all involved smart enough to realize it is the same as the Uberti.

I'm also interested to know if anyone has experience with this black powder conversion.
View attachment 408102

Taylors and Cimarron are importers. The pistol will be marked Uberti. Some Taylor’s could be Pietta but I’m not sure.

ETA: Contact Atlantic guns or The Saint. They will set you straight. I bought a 1873 Colt SAA repro from Atlantic Guns. It came in a Cimarron box but all of the pistol markings and manuals, etc are Uberti.

 

[Rambler]

The OP picture is of an already (factory?) done conversion of cap and ball to fixed cartridge.
The cap and ball replicas are not regulated as firearms. The factory cartridge conversions are.

In terms of home conversions, there are 2 basic types.

There are those which DO NOT require modification to the frame. These use a replacement cylinder which has chambers and firing pin(s) to allow the use of fixed cartridges. These require removal and replacement of the cylinder for a reload.They were always in a bit of a grey area legally. They are considered firearms only when "converted".

The other type of conversion utilizes modification of the frame to enlarge the depriming frame cut-out to make it into a loading gate cut-out. This permanent modification to the frame renders the formally unregulated cap and ball into a regulated cartridge handgun.

Prior to the recent 80% home-made firearm legislation, this was not an issue. But now, it is.

If it came already converted, it has to be on the roster. I do not know if aftermarket conversions have even been considered lately since, because it does not concern me, I have not researched it.

 

[FN509Fan]

To make the most out of Cap and Ball conversion revolvers, you need to reload.

The conversion you are looking at is a Kirst Konverter and ejector. If you buy an 1858 revolver, you will have to file a good bit off the recoil shield if you want to use the loading gate. It is a pretty pricey combo.

I've been a re/handloader since the early 1990s. I recently picked up a New Vaquero in 45 Colt and feel it needs a sibling. The 1858 I'm looking at is a replica of the factory ball and cap conversions that were done when cartridges were introduced. Remington had a bunch of parts for the 1858 already made in BP, so they modified parts for the cartridges.

 

[John from MD]

My 1858 Pietta conversion is a tack driver with 5.8 Bullseye behind a Lee 200gn RFN cast bullet. I did the conversion but Taylors sells one already converted but you have to buy the Cap and Ball cylinder separate if you want it. Here is what mine looks like.

Remington Conversion 8" 45Lc

The Remington Conversion in .45LC allows a shooter to switch from .45LC to .44 black powder by removing the breech plate, cartridge cylinder, and replacing them both with a spare black powder cylinder (available as a spare part from Taylor's A1014005). Along with the original conversion design...

www.taylorsfirearms.com

 

[FN509Fan]

My 1858 Pietta conversion is a tack driver with 5.8 Bullseye behind a Lee 200gn RFN cast bullet. I did the conversion but Taylors sells one already converted but you have to buy the Cap and Ball cylinder separate if you want it. Here is what mine looks like.

Remington Conversion 8" 45Lc

The Remington Conversion in .45LC allows a shooter to switch from .45LC to .44 black powder by removing the breech plate, cartridge cylinder, and replacing them both with a spare black powder cylinder (available as a spare part from Taylor's A1014005). Along with the original conversion design...

www.taylorsfirearms.com

That is the exact gun I have been drooling over. Have you tried using coated bullets? I know they recommend against jacketed, but I suspect coated would be OK and I can use the same loads in my New Vaquero.

 

[John from MD]

That is the exact gun I have been drooling over. Have you tried using coated bullets? I know they recommend against jacketed, but I suspect coated would be OK and I can use the same loads in my New Vaquero.

I usually powder coat the bullets I use in the high pressure cartridges like 9mm and 300 BO. For my .45 ACP and .45 Colt, I find that it is a waste of time since they are low pressured and Liquid XLOX is good enough to keep them from leading. If you don't do your own powder coating, store bought powder coated bullets will work just fine.

I use the same loads in most of my .45Colts. The exception is a brass framed 1858 which I use a lighter load of 5.5 WST. (the only reason I used WST is that someone gave me 5 pounds of it)

 

[Archeryrob]

I use the same Pietta and bullet as John but with 4.6 grains of Clays. I've done powder coat, but use deer fat and BW as a lube and pan lubed the bullets. I got at least 600 in boxes waiting to be shot. I use the Howell 5 cartridge cylinder and put the quick release on to replace the seating arm. I can hit a pie plate at 40 yards free handed easily. Extremely accurate.

I thought about getting a Kirst converter, but it is way cheaper to buy an 1873 cattleman pistol than buying the kirst and converting and 1858, IMO. So I went with the Howell cylinder.