12ga slugs

[mancheechee]

Question:

why is it that sabot slugs can't be used in non-rifled barrels?

 

[rj1974]

They can be , they just dont perform as well out of a smooth bore as they do a rifled barrel .

 

[mancheechee]

oh!
so it's completely safe for the smooth bore shotgun?

what's the difference than between slugs for rifled shotguns and smooth bore shotguns

 

[rj1974]

Yes its totaly safe . AS LONG AS YOU DONT HAVE TOO TIGHT OF A CHOKE IN IT .

Rifled slugs are normally used in smooth bore barrels
Sabots are normally used in rifled barrels

For best performance I would use a rifled barrel with sabots . You get more range and better accuracy

 

[mancheechee]

I have 5shell pack of federal fusion sabots that I want to shoot out of my mossberg 18.5 590a1. Only because I have a pack just sitting around and didn't want to go buy another pack just to shoot at some boards. I forget if the mossberg 590 has a fixed choke pattern...

 

[rj1974]

They will be fine in the 590 . It should be a cylinder bore (no choke)

 

[mancheechee]

Great thanks.
I'll have to fire couple off later or tomorrow through some piles of wood board.

 

[alucard0822]

You can shoot pretty much anything out of a smoothbore(with cyl choke), a rifled shotgun leads up quick with foster slugs or shot, and shot makes a weird donut pattern, but they are safe to shoot. The difference is that sabots are spin stabilized, like most any rifle bullet the spin keeps them stable and nose-forward. Foster and brenneke slugs for use with smooth bore are aerodynamically stabilized, Foster slugs(remington sluggers) have a deeply hollow base, almost a skirt that stabilizes it like a badminton shuttlecock. Brenneke's have a plastic or felt wad that stays attatched to the slug and basically does the same thing. The "rifling" on rifled slugs or longitudinal ribs on some slugs do not make them spin, it allows them to squeeze down safely when passing through a choke, so you can still fire slugs out of some older fixed choke guns, sabots generally don't have these ribs, so they can cause a gun with a tight choke(tighter than IC) to go over-pressure, an could be dangerous.

 

[mancheechee]

thanks for the info.
this led me to look up some more info on firing a sabot from a cyl choke (which I did find out that my moss 590a1 has). result is that at 50yds, sabot rounds hit the target and the accuracy results are 8 inch groups compared to when firing from a rifled barrel resulting in 2inch groups. Another thing to note is that when the slugs hit the target, it hit it sideways...meaning the hole on the target was rather large and a mess. - the BoxO'Truth #45.

Wow, so if this is true, if one would use a sabot slug at closer distance...say a self defense scenario, the badguy at the end of the barrel would not only get a slug, but the slug hitting him side ways....that would be quite messy for the guy I may assume.
Anyway, i'll try to find a time to shoot a few through some plywood and see what kind of damage it'll do.

thanks for the previous followup responses. very informative

 

[Biggfoot44]

The first Modern Sabot slug , the BRI ( still offered, now owned by Winchester ) predated rifled bbls , and was designed for smooth bores. They are aerodynamicly stabalized by their shape even from smoothbores. At short range their accuraccy overlaps the various traditional slugs , but they do have the advantage of high BC , high SD , and deep penetration.

From fully rifled Marlin will do one hole groups at 50yds.

 

[mikec]

Getting hit by a slug would ruin most anyone's day. I think even a hit in the hand would cause some nasty damage.

 

[smokey]

thanks for the info.
this led me to look up some more info on firing a sabot from a cyl choke (which I did find out that my moss 590a1 has). result is that at 50yds, sabot rounds hit the target and the accuracy results are 8 inch groups compared to when firing from a rifled barrel resulting in 2inch groups. Another thing to note is that when the slugs hit the target, it hit it sideways...meaning the hole on the target was rather large and a mess. - the BoxO'Truth #45.

Wow, so if this is true, if one would use a sabot slug at closer distance...say a self defense scenario, the badguy at the end of the barrel would not only get a slug, but the slug hitting him side ways....that would be quite messy for the guy I may assume.
Anyway, i'll try to find a time to shoot a few through some plywood and see what kind of damage it'll do.

thanks for the previous followup responses. very informative

closer distances(inside 25-50 yds depending on how the pattern opens up in your gun with your defensive ammo) buckshot would be the best....especially to limit overpenetration. Slugs for badguys come in handy to limit liabilities(don't want to send too many buckshot balls heading off into the distance instead of hitting badguy) at longer ranges where lots of the shot would just fly by around the outside of the target.

 

[hvymax]

What many don't realize is that there are shotguns like the Mossberg 835/935 with overbored barrels amd shooting slugs out of them can be especially dangerous as well.

 

[blackthorne]

What many don't realize is that there are shotguns like the Mossberg 835/935 with overbored barrels amd shooting slugs out of them can be especially dangerous as well.

How so?

 

[mikec]

I just looked at Mossberg's site and downloaded the manual for the 835 and they do have a warning in the book about slugs. Page 5, about 1/2 the way down. They have special slug barrels for that gun.

http://www.mossbergs.com/manuals/500_835_590_535_en.pdf

 

[blackthorne]

I can imagine that you would get inconsistant velocity and probably lousy accuracy, but where does the danger part come in?

 

[hvymax]

I can imagine that you would get inconsistant velocity and probably lousy accuracy, but where does the danger part come in?

The slugs can cant in the barrel and potentially wedge. Also the forcing cone could abruptly slow it to the point it would act as an obstruction. The Mossbergs barrel expands to 10ga ahead of the chamber. A column of shot will expand to fill it. The longer forcing cone IMO makes for far better shot patterns but you want either the cylinder or rifled barrels for slugs.

 

[blackthorne]

The slugs can cant in the barrel and potentially wedge. Also the forcing cone could abruptly slow it to the point it would act as an obstruction. The Mossbergs barrel expands to 10ga ahead of the chamber. A column of shot will expand to fill it. The longer forcing cone IMO makes for far better shot patterns but you want either the cylinder or rifled barrels for slugs.

Not sure if I buy that. A foster slug is well over .730 in the skirts. A 10ga bore is what, .780? I can't see a slug wedging in that little space. Might have a gas seal issue and that's why some slugs can now be fitted with speacial wads to seal the bore in larger diameter bbls. I certainly can't see the forcing cone causing a problem, as that cone is longer and larger than a standard cone in a nominal .729 bbl. I would suspect that Mossberg's motivations run toward the desire to sell separate slug bbls and to avoid complaints about poor performance moreso than a saftey issue. In that manual, it does not say that the slugs are a saftey concern. They don't really explain themselves other than advising against it. I would think if slugs caused saftey issues, they would have all sorts of warnings stamped on the bbls. Of well, something to think about.

As an add to, about 20 years ago I had a Baker Big Bore Bbl for an 870. It was a .780 bore. I shot target loads, buckshot and foster slugs without issues other than the bore not always being sealed, causing a few bloopers. Stan Baker never advised against slugs.

 

[mancheechee]

What many don't realize is that there are shotguns like the Mossberg 835/935 with overbored barrels amd shooting slugs out of them can be especially dangerous as well.

So does this mean I shouldn't shoot a sabot slug out of my Moss 590A1?

 

[hvymax]

So does this mean I shouldn't shoot a sabot slug out of my Moss 590A1?

If it's not an 835 or 935 it should not be an issue.