HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

zoostation · Mar 19, 2018

mac1_131 said:
Heard back from Zirkin's office today. We are being heard. Whether or not they will change anything remains to be seen.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

C4 and I forget the name but another one of the hosts at WBAL were talking about it today also. And the talking points seem to come right off this forum. Yeah I'd say we are probably being heard and watched.

zoostation · Mar 19, 2018

Not_an_outlaw said:
Rack and Deep Lurker could certainly file a complaint under this law against Officer Pope. He abused his power while having a firearm. Maybe he should be the test case. Certainly would be with good faith and not perjury. Which brings up another point. How does this law apply to Law Enforcement. I can see where someone was arrested, wrongfully or not, but still be acting in good faith depending on the standard. (A person in his shoes versus a person generally) How about the skateboard kid in the Inner Harbor a couple of years ago. Or the state policeman drawing a gun on a motorcyclist wearing a go-pro. Or any of the many abusive videos of law enforcement.

I don't want to get into the individual complaints but in general, stirring up the need for an LE exemption to prevent retaliatory complaints from arrestees, suspects, or antifa type groups could be a poison pill that they won't be able to resolve and could kill the whole bill.

dblas · Mar 19, 2018

danb said:
Untrue. He said hed sign it. Ill try to find the article from last week.

The fact that the house bill passed by a wide margin is an indication the fix is in.

Honestly I am not sure we are doing ourselves any favors with the wild paranoid conspiracy theories about neighbors getting neighbors guns confiscated. Due process concerns are valid. I know that divorces are messy and all kinds of shit flies to get custody. People are having other people SWATed. However the statistics from CT are not impressive. They did not stop Adam Lanza. Over a 20 period they have not had what I would consider a lot of these. The solution to the due process concerns in my mind is to get Justices to treat the 2nd amendment like a normal enumerated right. Without justices who treat the 2nd as a normal right, anything is possible. I am not even sure this law is necessary to confiscate guns when its not a normal right. In other words, antis dont need the facade of this law to get neighbors guns taken now. I dont think this law adds anything to the equation.

Have you looked at the Stats from Ohio, which has a very similar bill? I have spoken to several friends in LE back in Ohio, and this does get abused quite a bit, but yet the prosecutors fail to hold the petitioner in contempt for filing a false claim.

iH8DemLibz · Mar 19, 2018

Hey all of you really smart people.

Can someone please post the link that will allow a person to e-mail all MGA House Members at once.

I will thank you in advance.

SCV/SAR Patriot · Mar 19, 2018

j_h_smith said:
Is it rare that Kathy Szlega isn't answering her phone or at least having an aid answering her phone? I've called 3 times today and each time all I've got was an answering machine.

I have her cell phone number, should I call her using that number or do it through her office? I'm pissed that she would sign this bill. I've sent an email already, but you know how they can get lost in the hundreds she probably gets ever day.

For someone who puts numerous posts on her FB account daily she's been hiding since the morning of March 16. I guess it's that huge responsibility she has being the minority whip-whipping all those RINOS in shape.
:rolleyes:

welder516 · Mar 19, 2018

I have been posting to her page and all i hear is the sound of crickets . To be fair Nic Kipke i get the same thing .

Schipperke · Mar 19, 2018

welder516 said:
I have been posting to her page and all i hear is the sound of crickets . To be fair Nic Kipke i get the same thing .

On Bumpstocks:

“This bill makes sense to me. But I don’t think it’s going to make us much safer”

Gov. Larry Hogan, a Republican, has endorsed all three gun control proposals:

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/government/bs-md-gun-bills-pass-20180315-story.html

danb · Mar 19, 2018

dblas said:
Have you looked at the Stats from Ohio, which has a very similar bill? I have spoken to several friends in LE back in Ohio, and this does get abused quite a bit, but yet the prosecutors fail to hold the petitioner in contempt for filing a false claim.

Ohio? Maybe you are thinking of Indiana? When I looked it up, Ohio does not have this kind of law. Indiana has one, where police can take guns without a judges order. I can see how that might be abused. As far as I can tell Kasich proposed a red flag law early March, among other things.

Rack&Roll · Mar 19, 2018

danb said:
Untrue. He said hed sign it. Ill try to find the article from last week.

The fact that the house bill passed by a wide margin is an indication the fix is in.

Honestly I am not sure we are doing ourselves any favors with the wild paranoid conspiracy theories about neighbors getting neighbors guns confiscated. Due process concerns are valid. I know that divorces are messy and all kinds of shit flies to get custody. People are having other people SWATed. However the statistics from CT are not impressive. They did not stop Adam Lanza. Over a 20 period they have not had what I would consider a lot of these. The solution to the due process concerns in my mind is to get Justices to treat the 2nd amendment like a normal enumerated right. Without justices who treat the 2nd as a normal right, anything is possible. I am not even sure this law is necessary to confiscate guns when its not a normal right. In other words, antis dont need the facade of this law to get neighbors guns taken now. I dont think this law adds anything to the equation.

Rack&Roll said:
Why do you dive into every legislative thread to announce a bill is a “done deal” or “the fix is in”?

It makes me think of children's birthday parties where one pathetic kid yells out what’s in the gift boxes while the unwrapping is underway...

Where is the dishonor in fighting suspicious informant tactics in a so-called Red Flag bill focused on firearms and their owners?

Don’t you understand that occasionally the Senate rejects bad policy/bad implementation the way the Campus Gun Bill was kicked out last year?

The Maryland Senate has some history is standing up for what’s right.

What your agenda to always announce “game over”? Seriously, would you explain this?

Followed by the OP’s response to the nonsense:

zoostation said:
You seem to like the bill, we get it . They aren't "wild paranoid conspiracy theories." And I don't appreciate the characterization. I went to a lot of time and trouble to pick through this bill and write a concise account of the dangers it presents to gun owners. We are talking about distinct and realistic possibilities. And some of us have actually seen how other laws like this are used and know what we are talking about. Not sure why you seem to want to short circuit the efforts here to defeat at least some provisions in this bill by telling people what a reasonable idea it is and telling them that the fix is already in because of the House vote, as if you really know. If you want people with a grudge to be able to go down to district court, tell a lie, and take away your rights and your guns , you be my guest but you're not going to find it welcome here methinks. I've had a relative with nothing to lose and a grudge lie and try to use the legal system to come after me, and I thank God that they didn't have a law like this at their disposal at that time

And this follow-up by dblas—who TESTIFIES on your behalf at all major hearings while you hover over your Clever Girl Keyboard.

dblas said:
Have you looked at the Stats from Ohio, which has a very similar bill? I have spoken to several friends in LE back in Ohio, and this does get abused quite a bit, but yet the prosecutors fail to hold the petitioner in contempt for filing a false claim.

Nope, the too-smart-by-half analysis and White Flag brigade...not our imagination:

danb said:
Are they asking the impossible? What is the legal definition of "application"? Its nothing more than a formal request. Formally request whether you need to get a stamp for your binary trigger after the new rules come out. Their reply tells you the answer.

This will pass in the current form 99% chance. With a lot of Republicans voting for it too.

danb said:
Also, the amendments to the Senate version look identical to the House and are online now. This will pass, likely without need for a conference, and Hogan will sign it.

And a lawsuit is extraordinarily unlikely to succeed. So dont count on it. Certainly it wont succeed by Oct 1 2018.

danb said:
Salt rifles were banned in 2013 and now machines guns are banned. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Are you catching on yet?

danb said:
That's not really true. If you lawfully own it before Oct 1 2018, you can continue to lawfully own it.

danb said:
The bill as written does not confiscate property owned lawfully prior to Oct 1 2018. It continues to be lawful so long as you comply with all federal rules.

They clearly thought of this, took the problem seriously, and wrote it to survive a lawsuit.

danb said:
The bill exempts rapid fire trigger activators possessed before Oct 1, 2018, if you have "applied to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives before October 1, 2018, for authorization to possess a rapid fire trigger activator;" and receive the authorization before Oct 1 2019. So if you possess it lawfully before Oct 1 2018, they are not taking it. There is some outside chance if you buy something in Sept and don't get your NFA stamp until after Oct 2019, you could theoretically be screwed.

Frosh and his staff and Bloomberg cronies don't have two brain cells to rub together in the winter, they usually copy it from somewhere like CT. I have to check, I am pretty sure this is very different from what passed in CT, NJ, and FL. There are also some details here that have not appeared on MDS. I do not think that this is a cut and paste Bloomberg-esque job.

danb said:
Good luck primarying Republicans on this. Machine guns and bump stocks are not a voting issue, and Trump and a lot of prominent Republicans already gave air support for this. NRA already paved the way too. I won't be surprised to see a lot of Republicans vote for this to give Hogan cover. Look at it this way, a lot of Republicans in FL just voted for a complete shotgun/rifle ban for 18-20 year olds.

The bill is pretty specific, and atypically crystal clear for a MD gun grab. Pretty clear that the sponsors had help from someone who knows their stuff. Unfortunately it looks like we got nothing for this.

danb said:
At least they defined a bump stock correctly.

Seems to me (many?) transferable machine guns will be BANNED after Oct 1 2018 because they included "burst trigger systems" (or maybe Oct 1 2019 if yone applied for the NFA stamp after Oct 1 2018 and got authorization before Oct 1 2019).

Looks to me as though someone with actual firearms knowledge helped them with this.

danb, you never respond to questions about what you get out of this. What is it you get out of this?

zoostation · Mar 19, 2018

Okay I'm going to lay this down right now, this thread is about efforts to defeat this bill or the critical parts of it at least. It is not about picking an argument over why we shouldn't and it's not going to turn into a sideshow shitshow over that. Those who want to tilt at that windmill for whatever inexplicable reason can direct their energies elsewhere from MDS or find their posting privileges limited.

Thanks.

Squaregrouper · Mar 19, 2018

Quick reminder folks...
This already happened TO ME!!! This was before it was proposed as a law. I was never even charged with a crime. Sure, I got my guns back; albeight two years later.
If this passes as written, it WILL be abused.

Rack&Roll · Mar 19, 2018

squaregrouper said:
Quick reminder folks...
This already happened TO ME!!! This was before it was proposed as a law. I was never even charged with a crime. Sure, I got my guns back; albeight two years later.
If this passes as written, it WILL be abused.

Looking forward to seeing you tonight on Lawyer’s Mall around 615pm-6:30pm if you can make it.

mcbruzdzinski · Mar 19, 2018

squaregrouper said:
Quick reminder folks...
This already happened TO ME!!! This was before it was proposed as a law. I was never even charged with a crime. Sure, I got my guns back; albeight two years later.
If this passes as written, it WILL be abused.

You are not alone!
It happened to me as well and took just about as long and $25000 in legal fees!

Squaregrouper · Mar 19, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Looking forward to seeing you tonight on Lawyer’s Mall around 615pm-6:30pm if you can make it.

I'm in a holding pattern right now waiting on a radio call- thus the P5 level of posts in the past 30 minutes.

Abacab · Mar 19, 2018

Schipperke said:
On Bumpstocks:

Gov. Larry Hogan, a Republican, has endorsed all three gun control proposals:

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/government/bs-md-gun-bills-pass-20180315-story.html

Can't wait to not vote for Hogan

But muh redistricting!

ratcheting hammer · Mar 19, 2018

I'll just leave this here

Mora VS City of Gaithersburg

TLDR: End result was collection sold to FFL for a loss as they had been improperly stored and maintained. He moved to a more free State.

Rack&Roll · Mar 19, 2018

Schipperke said:
On Bumpstocks:

Gov. Larry Hogan, a Republican, has endorsed all three gun control proposals:

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/government/bs-md-gun-bills-pass-20180315-story.html

Abacab said:
Can't wait to not vote for Hogan

But muh redistricting!

On this bill, what help can you two offer?

It is Red Flag Bill vs MD Firearm owners.

Those are the contending parties in this action.

Squaregrouper · Mar 19, 2018

RatchetingHammer said:
I'll just leave this here

Mora VS City of Gaithersburg

TLDR: End result was collection sold to FFL for a loss as they had been improperly stored and maintained. He moved to a more free State.

Mine was due to me catching my (now ex) girlfriend cheating and making some very insulting comments. SHE made the call to the police, not a crisis hotline.
No psych eval for me either. More of a "we're taking your guns into safe keeping". Have a nice day- Bye.

dblas · Mar 19, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Hey all of you really smart people.

Can someone please post the link that will allow a person to e-mail all MGA House Members at once.

I will thank you in advance.

I believe you need to start working on the Senate JPR since this bill passed 3rd reader and is now over in the Senate.

Cruacious · Mar 19, 2018

After reading the current version of the bill I find it matches current law regarding identifying persons who may be a threat to others quite closely. However,it still has no protocol or path set to reclamation of property. This would mean that if such an order is issued, it would be in the best interests of the person to sell everything rather than let it confiscated. This whole bill is just worthless at this point in the Third Reader version I have seen. But, it will pass, and we will have to see what the results are.

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