D.C.'s registration form--No Semi-auto Handguns!

novus collectus · Jun 30, 2008

HoChiWaWa said:
remember, DC's definition of a machine gun includes any gun that can or can easily be converted to fire more than 12 rounds semi-automatically. That basically covers any detachable magazine firearm.

But I noticed something earlier today. If that is true, then why did DC register them all these years?
The handguns issued by organizations located in DC that have Special Police Officers have to register the handguns just like everyone else. Do they have revolvers, or semi autos with detachable magazines?

K-Romulus · Jun 30, 2008

novus collectus said:
But I noticed something earlier today. If that is true, then why did DC register them all these years?
The handguns issued by organizations located in DC that have Special Police Officers have to register the handguns just like everyone else. Do they have revolvers, or semi autos with detachable magazines?

I've seen both kinds . . . but more revolvers.

FYI: to the 20" question
- DC law defines "sawed off shotguns" as any with a barrel less than 20".
And the licensing division people say semi-auto shotguns are BANNED! :sad20:

ETA: if you want to spend the $$, here's the story in the Post archive:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washing...+Law+Is+Just+One+in+D.C.'s+Maze++Of+Gun+Rules

1976 Law Is Just One in D.C.'s Maze Of Gun Rules
The Washington Post - Washington, D.C.
Author: Paul Duggan - Washington Post Staff Writer
Date: Feb 19, 2008
Start Page: B.1
Section: METRO
Text Word Count: 1418

In a third-floor room at D.C. police headquarters on Indiana Avenue NW, where three officers working for Shelton keep track of legal guns in the city, five wide filing cabinets are filled with registration forms, some decades old. In the decades since, thousands more handguns have been registered -- by D.C. police officers who are allowed to carry personal semiautomatics while off duty and by security firms that are authorized to issue revolvers to trained, police-certified guards working on private or city property.

gtodave · Jul 1, 2008

Their new proposal would make a waiting period before you can get it registered, and a ballistics-fired rounds on file. Supposed to pass today. What a bunch of socialists

BenL · Jul 1, 2008

gtodave said:
Their new proposal would make a waiting period before you can get it registered, and a ballistics-fired rounds on file. Supposed to pass today. What a bunch of socialists

They will make handguns in DC like CCW in Maryland. Yes, technically it can happen, but there are so many hoops to jump through, and so many PITA restrictions, that it is, in practical terms, a de facto ban.

K-Romulus · Jul 1, 2008

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/30/AR2008063002289_pf.html

Gun Bill Provides for Self-Defense
Mendelson Responds to High Court Objection to D.C. Law

By Nikita Stewart
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 1, 2008; B01

District gun owners would be able to keep weapons in their homes, loaded and without trigger locks, for "immediate self-defense" under legislation being introduced in the D.C. Council today.

The bill, sponsored by Phil Mendelson (D-At Large), would also repeal the city's 32-year-old ban on handguns, which was struck down last week by the U.S. Supreme Court in a 5 to 4 ruling. Mendelson released a draft of his legislation yesterday.

The bill specifically addresses the majority opinion written by Justice Antonin Scalia that said, "We hold that the District's ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment, as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense."

Technically, the legislation would still require that firearms be kept unloaded and disabled, but it would provide a broad exception for guns that are present in the home for the purpose of "immediate self-defense." The exception is intended to address the high court's objection to a requirement that all guns be kept unloaded and either disassembled or outfitted with trigger locks.

Interim Attorney General Peter J. Nickles, who has said he wants a strong trigger lock requirement, said he will request that the council delay any action until the administration of Mayor Adrian M. Fenty (D) can review the bill and offer comment.(continued)

I will have to find the bill. Looks like I was wrong on the self-defense exception (but the devil is in the details) . . .

More:

The legislation would require a ballistics record for registered handguns and a waiting period for registration. The length of the waiting period would be determined by the D.C. police chief.

Lawyer Alan Gura, who successfully argued against the handgun ban before the Supreme Court, said in an interview that the waiting period for the city's legal firearms -- rifles and shotguns -- is already "onerous and kind of odd."

"It can take months and months," he said. "You have to submit a picture. They fingerprint people. . . . I don't believe it should take five or six months to purchase a gun."

An instant background check should be incorporated into the city's new laws, he said. (continued)

KevinK · Jul 1, 2008

Benlineberry said:
They will make handguns in DC like CCW in Maryland. Yes, technically it can happen, but there are so many hoops to jump through, and so many PITA restrictions, that it is, in practical terms, a de facto ban.

This is what I think will be the trend in Chicago, New York and perhaps Maryland too (although we have grandfathered guns in Md.)

While new lawsuits can be filed each time new restrictions that seem to run contrary to Heller are imposed, I think places like DC will continue to try and legislate making guns almost impossible to get (as with MD's CCW noted above). I think it will be many, many years before Md has open carry or shall issue, if ever. And also many, many years before the citizens of DC will be able to readily get a (legal) gun.

novus collectus · Jul 1, 2008

gtodave said:
Their new proposal would make a waiting period before you can get it registered, and a ballistics-fired rounds on file. Supposed to pass today. What a bunch of socialists

There already is a wiating period. Dc has up to one year to approve or deny an application under some circumstances, but generally it takes 14 days for the background check to be done anyway.

joppaj · Jul 1, 2008

If DC wants to avoid more lawsuits, they'd mirror Maryland's laws. Maryland laws are amongst the nation's most restrictive, but I think most of them will hold up in court.

nighthawk2099 · Jul 1, 2008

What I'm waiting to see is someone in D.C. start the process but during the "WAIT" some thug (not wishing this on anyone) happens to either really hurt or kill said person and the city get B*tch slapped for it.

K-Romulus · Jul 1, 2008

KevinK said:
This is what I think will be the trend in Chicago, New York and perhaps Maryland too (although we have grandfathered guns in Md.)

While new lawsuits can be filed each time new restrictions that seem to run contrary to Heller are imposed, I think places like DC will continue to try and legislate making guns almost impossible to get (as with MD's CCW noted above). I think it will be many, many years before Md has open carry or shall issue, if ever. And also many, many years before the citizens of DC will be able to readily get a (legal) gun.

NYC already has a pistol licensing process for home use/ownership:
- four (4) notarized letters of reference
- fingerprinting/photos
- background check forms
- $340 fee
- license is only good for three years(!) before renewal at $340 rate
- max of five pistols allowed under a license

NYS handgun licensing is silent on whether the license is for home or CCW. Standards for "all lawful purpose"-type blanket use permits vary by county; most issue "for residence or target shooting only." For a basic license to own,state law requires at least:
- four references to list on the application
- fingerprinting
- review of completed application package by judge, who is the issuing authority under state law
- not sure of the fee, but I BELIEVE the licenses/permits are lifetime.

KevinK · Jul 1, 2008

K-Romulus said:
NYC already has a pistol licensing process for home use/ownership:
- four (4) notarized letters of reference
- fingerprinting/photos
- background check forms
- $340 fee
- license is only good for three years(!) before renewal at $340 rate
- max of five pistols allowed under a license

NYS handgun licensing is silent on whether the license is for home or CCW. Standards for "all lawful purpose"-type blanket use permits vary by county; most issue "for residence or target shooting only." For a basic license to own,state law requires at least:
- four references to list on the application
- fingerprinting
- review of completed application package by judge, who is the issuing authority under state law
- not sure of the fee, but I BELIEVE the licenses/permits are lifetime.

I guess what I mean is that any locality that wants to restrict guns will. They may lose lawsuit after lawsuit, and in the end, the public will be able to get a gun, but it will be an incredible misery to do so.

A court may force Maryland to become 'shall issue' and if it did, I'm sure Maryland would put in all sorts of requirements to be met before the CCW was issued, effectively making it almost impossible to get, as it is now.

Just like DC seems to be doing with their new licensing regulations.

Splitter · Jul 1, 2008

Well, it's like cigarettes in a way. The state determines they are bad for you and, since the cannot make them illegal, they make them too expensive to actually buy.

I am not advocating for cigarette usage, just pointing out how the state is still in control no matter what the "law" may or may not say.

It's pretty clear this is the way the anti-gun folks will fight the rest of this battle.

Splitter

Decoy · Jul 1, 2008

Are there even any FFL dealers in D.C.?

SigMatt · Jul 1, 2008

Yes, Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center.

You read that right. The director of one of the most virulent anti-gun groups holds an FFL. He obviously doesn't have a storefront (which I find curious since the ATF changed the regs on that to shut down kitchen table dealers) but he has the ability to do transfers. I doubt he will be so forthcoming to provide his services to the residents of the District.

Matt

Decoy · Jul 1, 2008

Thats crazy

mikec · Jul 1, 2008

mpickering said:
Yes, Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center.

You read that right. The director of one of the most virulent anti-gun groups holds an FFL. He obviously doesn't have a storefront (which I find curious since the ATF changed the regs on that to shut down kitchen table dealers) but he has the ability to do transfers. I doubt he will be so forthcoming to provide his services to the residents of the District.

Matt

The ATF decided that you must comply with local zoning laws. Now true car mechanics don't need a Federal license so how many towns/cities know that some mechanic is doing business in their backyard contrary to the town's zoning laws unless someone complains? Same with hair stylists. All home based businesses could be shut down IF the local government wanted to.

mikec · Jul 1, 2008

K-Romulus said:
NYS handgun licensing is silent on whether the license is for home or CCW. Standards for "all lawful purpose"-type blanket use permits vary by county; most issue "for residence or target shooting only." For a basic license to own,state law requires at least:
- four references to list on the application
- fingerprinting
- review of completed application package by judge, who is the issuing authority under state law
- not sure of the fee, but I BELIEVE the licenses/permits are lifetime.

I also had to take an "approved firearms training class". I found a shooting club and took the NRA class.

When I got my NY permit, back in '80 or '81 my permit was issued by Erie County, Buffalo area, and it was stamped "Restricted- Hunting and Target Shooting". Then a different judge was appointed and she was a shooter and permit holder. She reviewed the law and ruled that the restrictions were baseless. Maybe to make some $$ for the county she ruled that you could get a new permit, minus the restrictions, for $10 and some new photos. The lines at County Hall were rather long. Not sure if any new state laws have been passed to put the restrictions back.

The fee was maybe $25 when I got my permit, but it has gone up with time and inflation.

There is also a fee to add or remove a handgun from a permit. Was something like $3, then $5 and I think it is higher today. $7-$10??

Nothing like being a 20 year old kid going to be interviewed by a judge. "Son, why do you want to get a pistol permit?" I had joined the shooting club so I had a place to enjoy "my lawful use of a firearm".

At least back in the early '80's someone under 21 could get a permit and own handguns. Yes, I couldn't buy one at a dealer but I could buy a used gun face to face.

Then I moved here....

BenL · Jul 1, 2008

mpickering said:
Yes, Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center.

You read that right. The director of one of the most virulent anti-gun groups holds an FFL.

Matt

I wonder what his price would be on one of the new Colt Delta Elites? I'll have to give him a call.

mikec · Jul 2, 2008

Question, for what purpose does this guy have a FFL? I thought ATF would not issue one unless you were in business, not to be used to improve a private collection or hobby? Does this guy have a store front shop? If not, the it would seem that DC has decided that it's zoning laws allow kitchen table shops, right? In order to get the FFL, he has to prove that he has local tax accounts and in compliance with local zoning. So, it seems that this guy is the test case for anyone wanting to get a FFL in DC.

novus collectus · Jul 2, 2008

mikec said:
Question, for what purpose does this guy have a FFL? I thought ATF would not issue one unless you were in business, not to be used to improve a private collection or hobby? Does this guy have a store front shop? If not, the it would seem that DC has decided that it's zoning laws allow kitchen table shops, right? In order to get the FFL, he has to prove that he has local tax accounts and in compliance with local zoning.

There are different kinds of FFLs like manufacturing, pawn shop, gunsmith, dealer and importer (or something like that). The dealer FFL is the one that the ATF went about cracking down on and such. So it is possible he may not be an 01 FFL (dealer) and may be a gunsmith or something.
Even if he is a dealer FFL, he has plenty of "friends" with money and connections enough to get just enough business to satisfy the ATF.
I suspect potential cohort, FBI director Mueller throws him some agency business on occasion, and maybe the armed Special Police Officer guards at the Brady Campaign headquarters in DC need to get their handguns from somewhere.

So, it seems that this guy is the test case for anyone wanting to get a FFL in DC.

Excellent point and I think we should run with it!
Wouldn't it be fricken ironic if Josh Sugarmann's FFL business was used as the basis for all new FFLs in DC selling all those evil handguns? :lol2:

D.C.'s registration form--No Semi-auto Handguns!

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Banned

Suburban Commando

Member

John Galt Speaking.

Suburban Commando

Ultimate Member

Banned

Sheepdog

Ultimate Member

Suburban Commando

Ultimate Member

R.I.P.

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

John Galt Speaking.

Ultimate Member

Banned

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics