National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill question

swinokur · Jan 9, 2017

The bill is written so that residents of permitless carry states can carry permitless in any state. Read the portion after OR.

GlocksAndPatriots · Jan 9, 2017

swinokur said:
The bill is written so that residents of permitless carry states can carry permitless in any state. Read the portion after OR.

I know. And that's going to be a tough sell to some people on the fence.

swinokur · Jan 9, 2017

i don't disagree with that.

GlocksAndPatriots · Jan 9, 2017

swinokur said:
i don't disagree with that.

I guess my point is, I'd rather they require a permit (if you live in Vermont, you have to get a permit from another state if you want to take advantage of reciprocity) and have the bill pass.

swinokur · Jan 9, 2017

i'd be worried anything other than requiring recognition, ie requiring a permit starts to step on states rights.

this is conjecture. i'm no scholar of any kind

Kharn · Jan 9, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
I have to say, I don't support the way this bill is written. Either make the entire country permitless or make everyone get a permit. But there's a lot of moderates who are going to have a hard time being convinced that if you live in Florida, you should need to get a permit to take advantage of national reciprocity, but that if you live in Arizona, you shouldn't. Personally, I would make it so that to take advantage of reciprocity, you need to have a permit from a state that requires 8 hours in training. That would make it so that the liberals couldn't use the "untrained people carrying guns around" argument. I understand the position of the absolutists, but at this point, we need to win over moderates too.

LEOSA was supposed to be the first step towards nationwide reciprocity, getting the moderates to see it's not a danger, etc. It's been 10 years, nothing has changed. Instead, we need to demand everything we want while the pro-gun side holds the majority and let the chips fall where they may.

25 Democrat Senators are up for reelection in 2018, a number of them from states Trump won. Let them go into it with Ds and Fs from the NRA for not voting for reciprocity, hearing protection act, etc.

BradyWarrior · Jan 9, 2017

Kharn said:
LEOSA was supposed to be the first step towards nationwide reciprocity, getting the moderates to see it's not a danger, etc. It's been 10 years, nothing has changed. Instead, we need to demand everything we want while the pro-gun side holds the majority and let the chips fall where they may.

25 Democrat Senators are up for reelection in 2018, a number of them from states Trump won. Let them go into it with Ds and Fs from the NRA for not voting for reciprocity, hearing protection act, etc.

Concur. That's exactly right.

GlocksAndPatriots · Jan 9, 2017

Kharn said:
LEOSA was supposed to be the first step towards nationwide reciprocity, getting the moderates to see it's not a danger, etc. It's been 10 years, nothing has changed. Instead, we need to demand everything we want while the pro-gun side holds the majority and let the chips fall where they may.

25 Democrat Senators are up for reelection in 2018, a number of them from states Trump won. Let them go into it with Ds and Fs from the NRA for not voting for reciprocity, hearing protection act, etc.

And it would be very easy for even red state Democrats to say that they voted against a bill because it allows people with no permits to carry anywhere in the United States. I'd much rather get reciprocity (with a permit) with 60 votes than have the bill fail with 56 because we went for this stupid permitless idea (but only for certain people).

BradyWarrior · Jan 9, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
And it would be very easy for even red state Democrats to say that they voted against a bill because it allows people with no permits to carry anywhere in the United States. I'd much rather get reciprocity (with a permit) with 60 votes than have the bill fail with 56 because we went for this stupid permitless idea (but only for certain people).

A dozen states more or less have constitutional carry at this point though. I'd rather push constitutional carry from coast to coast. If a red state Democrat doesn't support it, they will be unemployed come 2018.

GlocksAndPatriots · Jan 9, 2017

BradyWarrior said:
A dozen states more or less have constitutional carry at this point though. I'd rather push constitutional carry from coast to coast. If a red state Democrat doesn't support it, they will be unemployed come 2018.

I think you overestimate the commitment to that level of gun rights among the average person there. One of our best arguments it that "Permit holders are among the most law abiding people." We lose that argument if people from constitutional carry states can carry anywhere. In any case, I can see the argument for requiring constitutional carry nationwide. I CAN'T see the argument for it ONLY for people from constitutional carry states.

rambling_one · Jan 9, 2017

Kharn said:
LEOSA was supposed to be the first step towards nationwide reciprocity, getting the moderates to see it's not a danger, etc. It's been 10 years, nothing has changed. Instead, we need to demand everything we want while the pro-gun side holds the majority and let the chips fall where they may.

I donated a fair amount of $$ to LEAA, swallowing their "Once we get ours, we will fight for civilian carry" hype. Never happened. This is our time; make the most of it.

GTOGUNNER · Jan 9, 2017

Never mind

BeoBill · Jan 9, 2017

When the time for voting comes I would make as much noise as I could to our and other "Nay" Congresscritters. Hopefully the bill won't be amended into nothing during the process. We've been "giving an inch" for decades. That needs to be OVER now. Time to

Kharn · Jan 10, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
I think you overestimate the commitment to that level of gun rights among the average person there. One of our best arguments it that "Permit holders are among the most law abiding people." We lose that argument if people from constitutional carry states can carry anywhere. In any case, I can see the argument for requiring constitutional carry nationwide. I CAN'T see the argument for it ONLY for people from constitutional carry states.

The moderates' personal feelings don't matter, the President is the policy director for his party, and the President-elect has said nationwide reciprocity is one of his priorities. They can follow along, or they can go without campaign financing and face a primary challenger who would go along with the agenda.

GlocksAndPatriots · Jan 10, 2017

Kharn said:
The moderates' personal feelings don't matter, the President is the policy director for his party, and the President-elect has said nationwide reciprocity is one of his priorities. They can follow along, or they can go without campaign financing and face a primary challenger who would go along with the agenda.

And if you think Trump is going to waste political capital on getting Constitutional carry reciprocity versus permit reciprocity, you've got another guess coming. He's specifically said that "A permit, like a driver's license, should work anywhere."

I honestly can't believe that gun rights supporters think it's worth risking defeat just so that people from a handful of states (and ONLY they) don't need permits.

eruby · Jan 10, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
And if you think Trump is going to waste political capital on getting Constitutional carry reciprocity versus permit reciprocity, you've got another guess coming. He's specifically said that "A permit, like a driver's license, should work anywhere."

I still think the kicker will end up being that if you don't have a home state permit, your home state can exclude you from carrying in your home state.

I hope I am wrong and Maryland gets bitchslapped.

GlocksAndPatriots · Jan 10, 2017

eruby said:
I still think the kicker will end up being that if you don't have a home state permit, your home state can exclude you from carrying in your home state.

I hope I am wrong and Maryland gets bitchslapped.

I unfortunately agree. But again, I'd much rather "compromise" away the Constitutional carry provision than have this type of provision.

dgapilot · Jan 10, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
I know. And that's going to be a tough sell to some people on the fence.

It's an Exclusive OR. You meet one requirement, or you meet the other requirement. There is no need to meet both requirements. Simple logic gate.

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GlocksAndPatriots · Jan 10, 2017

dgapilot said:
It's an Exclusive OR. You meet one requirement, or you meet the other requirement. There is no need to meet both requirements. Simple logic gate.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I understand that, and don't see what is has to do with my post.

dgapilot · Jan 10, 2017

Weren't you arguing that you needed a home state ccw? If it wasn't you, I meant to post in response to who was arguing that. Sorry

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National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill question

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