PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

JMangle said:

What exactly is a "Good Faith Agreement." How have they broken it?

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't fully understand what agreement was expressed/implied.

I'm sure Maryland's answer will be, "We're just waiting with applications sent in before the stay, and any sent in after we are returning without taking anyone's money. If they want to apply anyway, we are not denying them that." Put that way, they don't sound as evil as they are.

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Patrick said:

There is a ten day window to request a hearing on your denial. If you do not use it, you will need to start over. As long as people have the right information, they can make informed decisions. Some will pursue the hearing, others will not. Everyone who has gotten far enough to have to make that call has already done a lot. No harm waiting it out.


But mocking those who will take the additional steps is not cool.

No progress is made until a few people push the system. It's OK to wait it out, but don't be knocking the people willing to do a little more on your behalf. Accepting their work with grace would be the honorable thing, here.

Frankly, I am surprised by your response given your history supporting the right. Maybe you came across wrong?

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Mark75H said:

This shows real fear on their part, doesn't it?

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Mark75H said:

This shows real fear on the part of the state, doesn't it?

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Inigoes said:

or discrimination - hypocrosy - disdain

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esqappellate said:

Only the lawyers actually have fun with this and they are depraved individuals.

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Inigoes said:

or discrimination - hypocrosy - disdain

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Patrick said:

There is a ten day window to request a hearing on your denial. If you do not use it, you will need to start over. As long as people have the right information, they can make informed decisions. Some will pursue the hearing, others will not. Everyone who has gotten far enough to have to make that call has already done a lot. No harm waiting it out.


But mocking those who will take the additional steps is not cool.

No progress is made until a few people push the system. It's OK to wait it out, but don't be knocking the people willing to do a little more on your behalf. Accepting their work with grace would be the honorable thing, here.

Frankly, I am surprised by your response given your history supporting the right. Maybe you came across wrong?

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Mark75H said:

Contempt is the word that comes to mind.

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Mark75H said:

Contempt is the word that comes to mind.

A government agency attemting to tick the citizens it is supposed to be serving.

I can't see any reason to try to trick us unless they are afraid we are about to win.

If they had any confidence, they'd just sit tight.

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Dead Eye said:

I'll check back on the 24th

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Thanks for banning me from MDS. If not by you, then whomever, it gives me time to reflect. Originally when I joined, I thought that I would be getting a lot of good information, regarding Second Amendment issues, leading me to join MSI, as well. This was on the heels of having first applied for a CCW permit, after having received a death threat from a local thug. Almost immediately thereafter I was invited to both Annapolis, to speak before the House Judiciary Committee, by then Delegate Dan Riley, and to the MSI Open Holster Rally. At the House proceedings I met you, or so I believe, a tall guy, who I later felt rather strange about, thinking that perhaps as a "new guy" someone might want to take a bit more time in getting to know, to seize the opportunity to enlist in their ranks someone willing of their time with interest in the same issue. At the Open Holster Rally, I got the same sense, having taken a day off work to make the trip, which is demonstration to most groups of one's willingness to commit to the cause. Again the reception was "luke warm", at best. Even as both Delegate Smigiel and I continued to pursue my CCW through two (2) years and several appeals, I thought perhaps I might even occasionally get some sort of contact asking of its progress, perhaps even a word of encouragement now and then, or some level of support even if it were a token measure. Instead, any correspondence or sentiment that I received was more akin to that being something stuck to the bottom of one's shoe.

Throughout the time I spent, on MDS, reading the various posts, having signed up solely to watch the progress of the 2A issues, more specifically in Maryland, I began to encounter a rather interesting group of people. From my very first post even, being new to these types of forums, I was beat down and called a liar by a member and then was followed upon by his pack of hyenas, who all are still members today. My crime? Sharing my newly found information, for which I personally sought from the MDSP, regarding issuance of permits, for which I eventually shared with you. It was seen by other members as "grandstanding", rather than for what it really was - an attempt to further help the cause, by assisting in the gathering of pertinent and relevant information. I have had equally as interesting encounters since then.

Whether by dumb luck, or shear fate, neither MSI nor MDS found me, I found them. What does that say of either organization's efforts of getting their messages out? Then, after joining both MSI and MDS, with the reception that I received from both organizations, what does it say about either's retention efforts? "Banned for insulting other members", as though I have not been insulted repeatedly. Getting "flagged" or "points" or whatever, for metaphorically quoting my old Platoon Sergeant, therefore seen as being "racist" (my old Platoon Sergeant was an African American). Not to mention that certain individuals who happen to be: gunsmiths, gun store owners, friends, family, or members of the law enforcement community can talk openly and adolescently about sexual endeavors and their sexual preferences, for instance, and whether in a jocular vein or not, is still offensive, yet goes unchecked. So in summation, what is it that you are attempting to do here? All I see is chaos and confusion, with no real clear path forward. The whole endeavor appears to be one of attempting to "herd cats", rather than an organized effort.

I guess what I am trying to say is this, regardless of either groups intentions, this is my personal and constructive perspective, that I know is shared by several others based on their PM's to me, regarding both MDS and MSI:

Depending on who you are, you can say whatever you want to say, as often, as loud, and as raucous as you you want to say it, on MDS.

Any attempt to try and organize any MSI effort, augment, or volunteer for any planned event, is met with skepticism and quite often cynicism. Heck, I even once offered a day of my time to come to your organization and help in any way that I could, even if it was sweeping the floor and taking out the trash, and was STILL ignored. Others have attempted to organize local events, assist in helping pass out information, in essence they may not have been doing those things correctly, as so deemed by YOUR (with a key emphasis on YOUR) organization, but at least they were willing. A perfectly squandered opportunity to channel that energy into helping further the cause.

MSI events, such as the "Open Holster Rally" are viewed as "hoakie", at best, and not seen as worthy of wasting one's day to attend. No attempt is made toward recruitment, or educating the public. You have to literally stumble upon the event, with little or any advertisement, promotion or even word of mouth to draw in outsiders. One member tried to assist on drawing attention, via radio endorsement, but rather than helping him to channel that effort into something positive, he was met with a locked thread and words of admonishment. Instead, it only appears to be an outdoor meeting of current members, in an attempt to take their wives out for the day for a beer and a nice lunch in Annapolis.

In fact, it leads me to question the motives of the organizations in general, and its members, collectively. I sometimes wonder about both organizations in the same light I view organizations like the Rev. Jesse Jackson's, "Rainbow Coalition", or Rev. Al Sharpton's movement, in that sometimes I get the feeling that they perpetuate the idea of racism, for without it they personally would have no reason for existence. Think about it, if racism were to disappear tomorrow, where would it leave them? Equally, if concealed carry were to be adopted tomorrow, here in Maryland, where would that leave MSI, and it's Executive Members and staff?

So, as for the banning, as they say "I've been kicked out of worse places, by better people". In fact, I didn't directly insult anyone at all, I merely agreed with another member's post as to yet another's member's rather foolish comment, albeit admittedly it was a rather harsh comment for which I agreed with, but I have seen equally harsh comments made directly by other members of the "clique". In the meantime, during this time of "banning", perhaps we both can take time to reflect. Me, as to whether or not I want to continue to waste my time reading and participating in adolescent-like high school conversations in an attempt to pass the time while I wait on Second Amendment issues and information, and you, as to where you are wanting to take this effort, when you have myriad untapped resources willing to help the cause, yet long for a leader to organize them. Me, I can always cancel my memberships, save my money, and devote my time to more worthwhile endeavors, that have a greater chance at coming to fruition. Rather than sending a check to MSI, for example, I can send it directly to SAF were I know it will do some good. As for getting the Second Amendment information, I can always read about it in the newspaper and get just as much a lead on the story as I can sitting around in a forum, handwringing, and listening to others pontificate as to their legal prowess. In essence, it is no wonder Marylanders lost their right to begin with, with more people seemingly interested in protecting their own personal interest, rather than openly, outwardly, and COLLECTIVELY fighting for the cause.

Again, thank you for giving me my life back. I have gotten nothing from from either organization, other than to grow more cynical, for which I do not need.

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petergriffin said:

The state said don't waste your time or money applying for a permit because you will be denied. They returned the application without allowing you the option to tell them to process it anyway. Since your application has not begun the process and the check has not been cashed you have no right at this time to appeal. The state did overstep their authority by not allowing your application to be processed. They also caused you harm by making you pay for fingerprints that the MSP had no intentions of using. I would contact Livescan and have them fingerprint you again at no charge. Show them the letter MSP sent you. Do it quickly though because the longer you wait the more likely you will have to pay for printing again.

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Buff7mm said:

The financial damage to the OP is already done as to the prints. I'm sure he was printed at the same place I was and that is a private business with no connection to the MSP, so I'm sure that the need for new prints would only be done at an additional expense.

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petergriffin said:

The state said don't waste your time or money applying for a permit because you will be denied. They returned the application without allowing you the option to tell them to process it anyway. Since your application has not begun the process and the check has not been cashed you have no right at this time to appeal. The state did overstep their authority by not allowing your application to be processed. They also caused you harm by making you pay for fingerprints that the MSP had no intentions of using. I would contact Livescan and have them fingerprint you again at no charge. Show them the letter MSP sent you. Do it quickly though because the longer you wait the more likely you will have to pay for printing again.

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petergriffin said:

I don't see the harm in showing Livescan the letter and asking them to resubmitt the prints at no charge. Livescan does have the right to say no, but it doesn't hurt to try.

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Norton said:

after the email below, I thought you were done checking in for good after your last one-week vacation

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petergriffin said:

The state said don't waste your time or money applying for a permit because you will be denied.

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Dead Eye said:

This is the exact kind of misguided information I'm speaking of. The state didn't say any of those things. The MDSP said "Here's your money back, because unless you have a 'good and substantial' reason, we're just going to keep your money and tell you, no,"

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