PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

[Merlin]

They SURE took my money! So if they deny me I want my money back.

As much as we hate to hear it, if they do their investigation on an app, they are entitled to the money whether the app is approved or not. You pay them to do an investigation. That is just their fee.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Gura is not a Judge.

Yet. Thurgood Marshall turned a couple of civil rights victories into a Supreme Court seat. I rather like the idea of Supreme Court Justice Gura.

 

[Leroi]

Just make sure all parties know they are being recorded.

How many posts are you going to respond to with the same stuff that was said was back in the thread? Please read to the end before replying to every post.

 

[csanc123]

...resolved...

As much as we hate to hear it, if they do their investigation on an app, they are entitled to the money whether the app is approved or not. You pay them to do an investigation. That is just their fee.

 

[Merlin]

Not trying to give legal advice here (my standard disclaimer), but I personally would regard this as a denial on g&S grounds (as stated in the letter). That they refused to call it a denial does not make anything less than a denial. That they refused to process it further because the absence of g&s, just makes clear that they are still applying g&s, hence the appeal. In any event, I would lose nothing by filing an administrative appeal with the 10 days specified by 5-312. When a stay is then denied, the administrative agency would have no choice to grant my appeal and order MSP to process the application. That they choose not to cash the check prior to denial is irrelevant -- they can cash it then. And I personally would demand an actual hearing.. The state has thus bought themselves a lot of cost by doing this too-clever-by-half, BS

The MSP are hoping no one takes that next step.

 

[esqappellate]

And so going "ALL IN", buys you what?

I've dropped several times that, so far, and still no permit.

The short answer is that it keeps your application alive while the stay motion is being considered. If a stay is denied pending appeal, then they must comply with the injunction issued by Judge Legg. The Board would then presumably reverse the MSP form letter and send it back for processing. Presumably, we would get a board decision that says that the MSP does not have the discretion to refuse to process. Maybe that would take litigation in state court. Maybe the live scan is still good by that time, maybe not. Maybe the MSP would have to redo it on their dime, maybe you will have to. Don't know. And no one is guaranteeing that the stay will be denied, either by Judge Legg or the CA4. And yes, you could just sit on the sidelines and wait until the whole process plays out in the CA4, as the form letter says. And that is fine. I, for one, would not blame anyone for doing so. One thing for sure, MD is not going to change until the courts tell it that it has to.

 

[teratos]

The MSP are hoping no one takes that next step.

It may not matter at this point. We have a case that is pending that may take care of it for us.

 

[Merlin]

Merlin,

No disrespect but you keep stating the same stuff that others have already stated..in the same thread. There is no need to respond to EVERY single post in the thread with the same information. This thread is cluttered as it is.

Sorry, I got on this thread and was reading from the start. Sorry guys.

 

[dlmcbm]

Sorry, I got on this thread and was reading from the start. Sorry guys.

 

[csanc123]

No prob. Thx!

Sorry, I got on this thread and was reading from the start. Sorry guys.

 

[Robert]

Wow this thread blew up fast..

 

[dblas]

Wow this thread blew up fast..

Yep, Thanks to Merlin....

I hand delivered mine 32 days ago, watched the lady time stamp it as she received. They have cashed my check, but it would appear those of us in PG and MOCO are in a waiting pattern for interviews.

This is just me, but if I git the letter mentioned by the OP, I would send it to the review board with a letter asking for a hearing based on failure to follow COMAR. Not telling anyone what to do, just what I would do.

 

[Dead Eye]

The short answer is that it keeps your application alive while the stay motion is being considered. If a stay is denied pending appeal, then they must comply with the injunction issued by Judge Legg. The Board would then presumably reverse the MSP form letter and send it back for processing. Presumably, we would get a board decision that says that the MSP does not have the discretion to refuse to process. Maybe that would take litigation in state court. Maybe the live scan is still good by that time, maybe not. Maybe the MSP would have to redo it on their dime, maybe you will have to. Don't know. And no one is guaranteeing that the stay will be denied, either by Judge Legg or the CA4. And yes, you could just sit on the sidelines and wait until the whole process plays out in the CA4, as the form letter says. And that is fine. I, for one, would not blame anyone for doing so. One thing for sure, MD is not going to change until the courts tell it that it has to.

EXACTLY! "MD is not going to change until the courts tell it that it has to". So, reapplying keeps the app alive, which is a personal choice of the individual - also agreed. My original point was addressing the motive behind the letter, which I believe to be just a guy "doing his job", nothing more, nothing less.

In the interim, the rest of this thread is HOOEY, in that NOTHING is going to happen IMHO, until AFTER the 23rd of May. In the meantime, we wait. In fact, I'll check back on the 24th, and see how everyone made out (for those who THINK that they are going to make a difference between now and then - present company excluded).

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

Only the lawyers actually have fun with [litigation] and they are depraved individuals.

I'm using this!

 

[Patrick]

EXACTLY! "MD is not going to change until the courts tell it that it has to". So, reapplying keeps the app alive, which is a personal choice of the individual - also agreed. My original point was addressing the motive behind the letter, which I believe to be just a guy "doing his job", nothing more, nothing less.

In the interim, the rest of this thread is HOOEY, in that NOTHING is going to happen IMHO, until AFTER the 23rd of May. In the meantime, we wait. In fact, I'll check back on the 24th, and see how everyone made out (for those who THINK that they are going to make a difference between now and then - present company excluded).

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

There is a ten day window to request a hearing on your denial. If you do not use it, you will need to start over. As long as people have the right information, they can make informed decisions. Some will pursue the hearing, others will not. Everyone who has gotten far enough to have to make that call has already done a lot. No harm waiting it out.


But mocking those who will take the additional steps is not cool.

No progress is made until a few people push the system. It's OK to wait it out, but don't be knocking the people willing to do a little more on your behalf. Accepting their work with grace would be the honorable thing, here.

Frankly, I am surprised by your response given your history supporting the right. Maybe you came across wrong?

 

[petergriffin]

Let's ask the important question. Has anyone else received the same letter as the original poster? We need a running list of who received the letter and when they applied. I sent my application in on 3/07/12. MSP received the application on 3/09/12. MSP cashed my check on 3/12/12 and as of today's date I have not had any type of interview, nor received a letter like the OP.

 

[MJD438]

Let's ask the important question. Has anyone else received the same letter as the original poster? We need a running list of who received the letter and when they applied. I sent my application in on 3/07/12. MSP received the application on 3/09/12. MSP cashed my check on 3/12/12 and as of today's date I have not had any type of interview, nor received a letter like the OP.

As far as whether others have received the letter, several folks have already commented in the thread and Patrick has also replied to state that others have PM'd him with additional reports.

 

[mayor_quimby]

Merlin..... in posting you don't need to make one response per comment. Please respond to multiple posts in one response, you are cluttering this and every other thread you are in.

 

[tomh]

But surely they are getting direction from Gansler right? Can MSP interpret the court decision independent of Gansler?

Actually - here's my concern. When an governmental employee takes an action based on their position - they are also doing so under the authority to take such actions, as prescribed by law and usually a series of delegation steps from say the Governor, down, giving them the authority to do so.

Performing an illegal act, is neither "authorized" nor able to be delegated by a superior, because in fact it is illegal. (Against the constitution, against the law so to speak).

I wonder if, at this point, since Maryland law is concise and direct, if the sheer act of returning the application without processing it, is an act outside of the MSP's authorization, and the action as taken as such, exposes the individuals involved to direct exposure for exceeding their authority. That would make it possible to sue them in court directly for their actions.

This is obviously just speculation - and I am not an attorney, but I do wonder if they (MSP, etc.) have overstepped their authority in an illegal act.

 

[JMangle]

Because now not only are they laughing at a Good Faith agreement with the Stay, they are not flaunting COMAR. Good plan, MD.

What exactly is a "Good Faith Agreement." How have they broken it?

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't fully understand what agreement was expressed/implied.

I'm sure Maryland's answer will be, "We're just waiting with applications sent in before the stay, and any sent in after we are returning without taking anyone's money. If they want to apply anyway, we are not denying them that." Put that way, they don't sound as evil as they are.