Educate me on ak47's

erwos said:

The whole "your rifle must look like the original AKM/AK-74" paradigm is so old that even the Russians have grown out of it. What people need to put on their rifles is what works best for them and won't fail them where they need it. If that's five separate rails, a collapsible stock, a rear peep sight, and a fancy muzzle brake... so be it.

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If you want I can dig a ditch and you can fill it with tears. Was just being sarcastic. Got Valium?

Scott7891 said:

Here is my guide and rating system on a scale of 1-10 for all AK's currently on the market with the blessings of one of our resident gunsmiths.

.First time buyers should stick with a fixed stock to get used to the system. If you like it one can move on to sidefolders and underfolders.

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Great write up! I learned a bunch!

one thing ill add. i do love Arsenal AKs, but i think they are overhyped. mine came with a horribly out of spec front sight, and a blotchy finish. i didnt inspect it at the time because i was younger a more foolish. ive seen quite a few poorly finished Arsenals, and it makes me sad. for being "new AKs" their quality control is garbage in the finish department.

hdatontodo said:

Thank you all for all this information on the AK rifles as well as on dealers.

Since Duffy's is only 20 minutes away from home, and it was payday, I went at lunch and looked an an Arsenal and several other AK's. I settled on a $700 Yugo (Serbian) Zastava PAP M70. I didn't buy online since I needed more assistance making a choice.

The only unfortunate thing is that it doesn't have the wood furniture like this one:
http://www.jgsales.com/cai-yugo-zas...-with-pistol-grip-and-wood-stock.-p-6775.html
7.62x39

(P.S. I don't mind being a poster child for what not to buy if that will help the next buyer.)

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Is yours converted? I.E. does it take normal AK mags and is the thumbhole stock removed?

Converting one that has not already been converted is extremely difficult considering the trunnion is not meant to use double stack mags since it has been civilian modified. Also some receivers are not squared in the rear to use a normal butt-stock plus Yugo AK's use their own proprietary stock mounting system totally different from Warsaw Pact and even the Chinese standard.

The scope mount on the dust cover is a joke. It is very unstable and will not hold zero. Seeing as how as zastava is a factory arsenal building AK's for years I would have expected them to come up with a better scope mounting system than some cheap gimmick that is reminiscent of the ignorant bubba setup that is so common here by people who don't know AK's.

Also the barrel although hammer forged is not chrome lined meaning that using cheap steel ammo found everywhere will not extract as smoothly since chrome acts as a lubricant thus making it not as reliable. The Serbian military issued brass-cased ammo for a reason which is to allow the barrels to last longer knowing that if they went with steel they would have to be replaced more often. To get the maximum life out of your barrel I would use only Yugo surplus or new production brass ammo.

Forest said:

Great write up! I learned a bunch!

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Thank you.
Also to update, the Legion facility here is not affiliated with Izhmash. They are just using their name to push their overpriced conversions that any one of us could do at home for much less.

Indiana Jones said:

one thing ill add. i do love Arsenal AKs, but i think they are overhyped. mine came with a horribly out of spec front sight, and a blotchy finish. i didnt inspect it at the time because i was younger a more foolish. ive seen quite a few poorly finished Arsenals, and it makes me sad. for being "new AKs" their quality control is garbage in the finish department.

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Unfortunately they are the only game in town that converts Russian AK's to the most correct specs where they take their time into making their conversions look nice that is also generally affordable and available to the masses. Sure smaller outfits like AKUSA, Pof, and ColdWarClassics to cite some examples could make conversions just as good if not better than Arsenal but they will be much more expensive outside the realm of what most people would want to pay for an AK. People already complain about the prices AK's are going for these days.

Yea companies mess up and products slip through the cracks, no one is perfect. However ill take an Arsenal AK over any of the smorgasbord of "domestic assemblers" sans the individual, talented gunsmiths. Their finish although not the greatest is not as bad as people make them out to be. I torture tested my Arsenal against another one of my AK's that was a custom build from a talented gunsmith who used his own finish that is advertised as the most durable finish in the world and looked much nicer than my Arsenal . After shooting 1000 rounds through each the Arsenal finish was fine compared to the custom build that already was wearing plus was bubbling in a few places. Not saying Arsenal finish is the best but not as bad people make it out to be and more durable than other finishes used on other guns IMO.

Or you could just get a VZ58, alot easier to find a good quality VZ.
Warning: they used 100% different parts from the AK so magazines and stuff will be a bit more expensive and not as common, but in return you get a lighter rifle that works just as well (some would argue better, but I digress.)

Any of the Saiga based guns are great. If you have a little mechanical ability the conversion is a great DIY project. I love mine and loved the project while I did it. Only thing I didn't do was the bullet guide, I've stuck with the 30rd Saiga mags so far without issue.

...

Hopefully it has a bolt meant for double-stack magazines, and isn't one of the ones that just has a magazine well dremeled open for double-stacks. The single-stack bolt is FAR too narrow for reliable feeding from a double-stack mag. Along with that, the bullet guide in those is meant for single-stacks, so unless it was modified, again you're going to have issues.

Can't believe those things are going for 7 bills now... :\

armed ferret said:

Hopefully it has a bolt meant for double-stack magazines, and isn't one of the ones that just has a magazine well dremeled open for double-stacks. The single-stack bolt is FAR too narrow for reliable feeding from a double-stack mag. Along with that, the bullet guide in those is meant for single-stacks, so unless it was modified, again you're going to have issues.

Can't believe those things are going for 7 bills now... :\

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$700 too much for this AK?

IMO, if you absolutely MUST have an AK, there is only one real choice in the US......preban Chicom. Buy it, fire it, clean it (this part is optional), repeat. They are guaranteed Quality and you don't have to worry about anything else...you already have the best.

Chicom....good for the Revolution.....good for the Soul.

If you have some patience, a good route to go is buying a parts kit with original chrome lined hammer forged barrel(preferably #s matching if you plan to resell, if not dont worry about it), a nodak spud receiver, 922r parts and have it built by a reputable builder or company. If you dont know much about the parts, functions and builders I'd recommend joining an AK specific forum to gain more knowledge and to acquire parts before having one built. You can definitely have a high quality ak built for about $7-800. People say buy polytech and other high priced ak's but they are so expensive and rare I doubt you'll want to turn it into a shooter. My SA85M and sgl's get shot the least.

raff696 said:

$700 too much for this AK?

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Personal opinion? Definitely. SGL-21 is in the same price range, and is an exponentially better option.

armed ferret said:

Personal opinion? Definitely. SGL-21 is in the same price range, and is an exponentially better option.

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At the website mentioned earlier in this thread, I found some

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/ind...d=23&Itemid=765&virtuemart_manufacturer_id=15

Their site doesn't work out here. I have no idea what you're linking to.

So I guess my $350 MAK90 purchase about 9 years ago was a good one huh? I'll have to check it out when I get home and see if its a milled or stamped variant out of curiosity.

Is it any harder to change the stock on a MAK as opposed to the other models? Thinking a side folder may be fun...

armed ferret said:

Their site doesn't work out here. I have no idea what you're linking to.

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Heres a list of that model on that site

Arsenal AK47 Rifle SGL 21-94 Sale: $1,169.00
Arsenal AK47 Rifle SGL21-66 With Quad Rail Sale: $955.00
Arsenal AK47 Rifle SGL21-62 Plum Sale: $879.00
Arsenal SGL 21-71 Sale: $885.00
Arsenal AK47 SGL 21-84 Russian Folder Sale: $1,155.00
Arsenal SGL 21-63 Sale: $885.00
Arsenal AK47 Rifle SGL 21-61 Black Standard Sale: $865.00

if you could buy direct from atlantic, i'd say go for it, but since they refuse to sell to MD residents (per posts and PM's i've received on arfcom and here) even though they're IN maryland, you're just going to be out even more for their "shipping" fees to another in-state dealer, then compensating that dealer for taking the time to complete the transaction. maybe hit up gunbroker; there's likely to be one there.

that or a converted saiga. look into those too. if you can find a PAP for 500 or so, you're okay. otherwise just get a wasr and i can help refinish when i get home.

J.T said:

So I guess my $350 MAK90 purchase about 9 years ago was a good one huh?

Is it any harder to change the stock on a MAK as opposed to the other models? Thinking a side folder may be fun...

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Good buy! I wish I'd bought more Chinese back when they were cheaper. The (stamped) MAK receiver is a little thicker than a standard AK, but you can shave off enough material to make most stocks fit. The milled is a whole different story since the bottom tang is missing, though companies like Ironwood make a through bolt stock. Not many choices in a proper sidefolder, a bolt-on Beryl stock is probably the nicest without making modifications to the receiver/rear trunnion.

hdatontodo said:

Heres a list of that model on that site
Arsenal AK47 Rifle SGL 21-94 Sale: $1,169.00

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I would go for the poly side-folder. Totally worth it if you want a good folder, it's otherwise like shooting with a fixed stock. Way better than any other folders for the AK. But all of those choices are good... all based on a Russian Saiga that Arsenal modifies stateside. To Ferret's point though, you can probably get it cheaper elsewhere since you'll be paying MD state tax plus shipping. Atlantic has great service and a good selection but another $50 or so per gun starts to add up. I wish they'd offer MD Shooters an "in-state" discount...

rob-cubed said:

Good buy! I wish I'd bought more Chinese back when they were cheaper. The (stamped) MAK receiver is a little thicker than a standard AK, but you can shave off enough material to make most stocks fit. The milled is a whole different story since the bottom tang is missing, though companies like Ironwood make a through bolt stock. Not many choices in a proper sidefolder, a bolt-on Beryl stock is probably the nicest without making modifications to the receiver/rear trunnion.

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Nice. I believe its a stamped unit but I'll look into it. Thanks man

armed ferret said:

if you could buy direct from atlantic, i'd say go for it, but since they refuse to sell to MD residents (per posts and PM's i've received on arfcom and here) even though they're IN maryland

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Maybe its a new policy?

I bought an AK-74 from them a few years ago no problem. They shipped the mag to an out-of-state address.

But like you and rob-cubed said the extra taxes and fees make it not worth doing business with Atlantic even though they are a good company. If I moved out of Maryland then I would be more inclined to do business with Atlantic.