Shotgun vs. muzzleloader?

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 17, 2013

I have tried searching but to no avail.I want to go hunting this year for the first time but don't have the cash for a rifle so I have settled on either a slug gun or a muzzle loader.I'm looking to take a deer in delaware and I'm not 100% sure on distances but from what I've heard it's between 40 and 200 yards on average.I am not looking to spend an arm and a leg so any suggestions would be welcome.

Franklin · Aug 18, 2013

Cva wolf is about $220 for the bare bones model or you can go stainless steel for 299. I suggest the stainless steel model but the standard model will still do 200 yards if you practice and use blachorn 209 with a 200 grain tc shockwave. 200's are hard to come by bit 250 are sold anywhere. Just a little more drop.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 18, 2013

Or spend about the same for a NEF fully rifled slug gun. You didn't ask but there are also budget options for rifles. Butin all of Del , and most parts of Md , ( modern ) rifles are prohibited for deer hunting.

Black powder requires more paraphinalia but can be used in BP and regular firearms. Shotgun with a bbl swap can be used for small game , birds , home defense , clay targets , etc . So flip a coin and take your choice.

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

All of my Deer guns, except for one, are muzzleloaders. I like muzzleloaders because they don't require paperwork and can be used for more than one season. Unless you are a very skilled shooter and can actually confidently shoot at 150-200 yards with any gun a muzzleloader is a fine choice all-around.

Chances are you'll never shoot past 75 yards unless you have a nice open field. Both my slug gun and my newest muzzleloader have 23" barrels and in 30 years I have never had to shoot more than 60 yards. Muzzleloader ammo is almost free since I cast my own bullets. Rifle ammo is expensive these days and shotgun slugs are not much better.

My hats' off to a muzzleloader any day. Besides you only get one shot anyway. Need muzzleloader bullets ? I got a million of them. While other guys are paying $20.00+ for 15 or 20 lead bullets I pay pennies to cast hundreds. I can't say that about rifle ammo or slugs.

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 18, 2013

While I do want shotgun for HD purposes and trap or just blasting some clays with friends in the country I am leaning towards a muzzle loader as I found out last night I can have it shipped directly to me and found some good prices online.The CVA Wolf seems to be decent for the price and I found some with a scope and case for around $200.Any suggestions on a good load,I also don't quite understand the difference between pyrodex and BP.

Boom Boom · Aug 18, 2013

My brother-in-law hunts with muzzle loaders. He loves it. Buy the nicest one you can afford and you won't be sorry.

budman93 · Aug 18, 2013

Muzzleloaders are fun, just make sure you know what you are doing. If you do decide to get a slug gun go with a 20 gauge. You dont need a 12 and the 20's are more pleasant to shoot. Especially from the simple lightweight H&R's and NEF's

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

GHETTO BLASTER said:
While I do want shotgun for HD purposes and trap or just blasting some clays with friends in the country I am leaning towards a muzzle loader as I found out last night I can have it shipped directly to me and found some good prices online.The CVA Wolf seems to be decent for the price and I found some with a scope and case for around $200.Any suggestions on a good load,I also don't quite understand the difference between pyrodex and BP.

GUN(S):
Inline Muzzleloaders are all basically the same today, so, shop by budget and not by name. Make sure you buy something with a quick release breech plug like a CVA Optima or Accura has. These breech plugs are a god-send to the muzzleloading world. Trust me after owning one one of the very first Knight Wolverine rifles, you fully appreciate the QR Breech plug of today. You know side hammer percussion rifle was easier to clean than that Wolverine inline.

POWDER:
Use 100 grains of Pyrodex RS with a 295 to 310 grain bullet. Stay away from anything that says Triple Seven ( that is some seriously dirty crap ) I also suggest staying away from them powder pellets. Buy loose powder in a can. Some pellets go POOF some go BAWOOF. All loose powder goes BAWOOF. You want BAWOOF. You don't want POOF when the Deer is in front of you. I have a several buddies who went back to loose powder after experiencing many issues with them cute little pellets. I have never used the things myself. I learned from from everyone elses problems not to even try them.

PRIMERS:
As for primers, just buy whatever there is cheapest on the shelf. I have used them all and they all do the same thing. I use the same 209 primers for my muzzleloaders that I use for reloading my shotshells. A 209 primer is a 209 primer. Currently I am using Remington Premiere STS because that's what the reloading guy had for shotshells. If he has CCI next time then CCI it will be. Don't care. Doesn't matter.

BULLETS:
You get the gun, primers, and the powder then contact me and I will ship you some bullets. I have more bullets here than either us will use in a life time. Don't worry about a thing when it comes to bullets. I got it covered. I cast my own and use Harvester Sabots. I am not one to be suckered in to buying a 15 0r 20 pack of lead pistol bullets for $20.00+ dollars. I don't care if they are copper jacketed, hollow point, ballistic tip, Barnes, CVA, Traditions or whatever else is stamped on them M/L bullets all perform the same. That fact is not even debatable.

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

budman93 said:
Muzzleloaders are fun, just make sure you know what you are doing. If you do decide to get a slug gun go with a 20 gauge. You dont need a 12 and the 20's are more pleasant to shoot. Especially from the simple lightweight H&R's and NEF's

I agree 1000%. Muzzleloader nothing to be scared of. The loading process is always the same. I also opted for a 20 gauge slug gun when I had this great idea to own one just to own one. I have killed many Deer with this 20 Ga slug gun and a 12 gauge, is well, just too much gun for the same end result. My 20 Ga. rifled slug gun is a Rossi and I swear by this gun and plan to be buried with this gun. I'm not a fan of shotguns for Deer hunting, but, this cheap little gun sure impressed the hell out of this muzzleloader guy. I only bought it for really rainy days and if it got rust on it, so what. However, this little $169.00 Rossi has become a serious Deer hunting companion. I do still take it out on occasion, but, the muzzleloaders reign supreme.

I also cast and reload my own slugs for 20 gauge to hunt with and the fun just keeps getting better every year. I take more pride in my kills when I do it with a muzzleloader bullet or shotgun slug I made and reloaded myself.

However, muzzleloaders are just so much more fun than a cliche' old shotgun. I like smoke and wondering if it will fire at all. Then you have that 15 second time frame waiting for the smoke to clar all the while wondering if you actually hit the Deer. Muzzleloader presents challenge and not just a "Point & Click" hunt. There's no fun in that.

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 18, 2013

Thanks a lot SOMDSHOOT that pretty much answers all my questions,I was wondering about the pellets but i think i'll go with loose powder.Now to explain to the wife why I need another gun.

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

GHETTO BLASTER said:
Thanks a lot SOMDSHOOT that pretty much answers all my questions,I was wondering about the pellets but i think i'll go with loose powder.Now to explain to the wife why I need another gun.

I just lay the facts on the table. The end user is responsible for his actions.

Now, simply explain to the wife that you can either buy one single Muzzleloader and have one gun for 4 different seasons, OR you have to buy 4 different guns for 4 different seasons. ( yes, there are only 2 different seasons, but, if the wife don't care she wont know the difference anyway ) The more seasons you can dream up for needing a muzzleloader... the easier your sales speech is on her. Be sure to state that a Muzzleloader is ABOUT $200.00 and the other guns are about $1100.00 she don't need to know exact figures and prices. Just point out the the vast price difference between the one gun and four guns.

Also, when you buy the 300.00 Muzzleloader... BURN ALL ASSOCIATED RECEIPTS FOR SAID GUN. You won't need the receipt in the future anyway. A mans biggest downfall to his gun purchases is his paperwork.

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

GHETTO BLASTER said:
Thanks a lot SOMDSHOOT that pretty much answers all my questions,I was wondering about the pellets but i think i'll go with loose powder.Now to explain to the wife why I need another gun.

Loose powder versus pellets is a Ford/Chevy debate these days, but, in all my years of experience the only difference in this debate is that pellets suck.

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 18, 2013

Yeah I already started shmoozing her with the old "Think of how much money we'll save on meat",and "Oh look this one is only $268 and has a scope and case."

Uncle Duke · Aug 18, 2013

SOMDSHOOT said:
I just lay the facts on the table. The end user is responsible for his actions.

Now, simply explain to the wife that you can either buy one single Muzzleloader and have one gun for 4 different seasons, OR you have to buy 4 different guns for 4 different seasons. ( yes, there are only 2 different seasons, but, if the wife don't care she wont know the difference anyway ) The more seasons you can dream up for needing a muzzleloader... the easier your sales speech is on her. Be sure to state that a Muzzleloader is ABOUT $200.00 and the other guns are about $1100.00 she don't need to know exact figures and prices. Just point out the the vast price difference between the one gun and four guns.

Also, when you buy the 300.00 Muzzleloader... BURN ALL ASSOCIATED RECEIPTS FOR SAID GUN. You won't need the receipt in the future anyway. A mans biggest downfall to his gun purchases is his paperwork.

I like the way you think! :thumbsup:

And if that doesn't work, remember that they can only beat you for so long before they eventually get tired and give up.......at least until the following day, when the process is repeated.

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

GHETTO BLASTER said:
Yeah I already started shmoozing her with the old "Think of how much money we'll save on meat",and "Oh look this one is only $268 and has a scope and case."

LOL you already have it figured out man.

I also want to add this little bit of experience from being a married gun owner. When it comes to guys who have to ask their wives for permission to buy a gun just bring the "Monthly Hair Maintenance Cost" factors to your debating table. This will shut any woman down almost immediately. Here's how it works:

You want a gun that costs a one time payment of say $300.00 She gets her hair cut, styled and colored every month and this could be $80.00 to $125.00 a month ( trust me I own a such woman ) Let's see, you spend a grand total of $350.00 on a new gun and required yearly supplies. You're done man. You are good to go for one year.

She pays a minimum of $80.00 per hair session per month and at a yearly cost of $960.00 !?!?!?!?! WTF !

You have saved $610.00 over 12 months on your gun versus her hair appointments.

NOW you can tell her you are buying the damned gun or she can stop getting her hair done... ( you win )

I have NEVER asked my wife if I could buy anything. My wallet is not hers. However, when I do walk in the door with a new gun. Not a word has to be uttered. The groundwork was laid long ago...

Besides man, according to your profile picture, you don't have a blade of hair on your head anyway, so, again you can use this to your advantage by simply pointing out the fact that since you don't need a hair cut you have decided to put your hair appointment investments in to feeding your family...

And be sure to mention to her that you will not even bring up the additional hundreds of dollars she requires per 12 month period for daily maintenance of her hair. Shampoo, conditioner, straightener, detangler, decurler, hair spray, 10 different brushes, and whatever-the-hell-else women think they "NEED" to do their hair on a daily basis... That's $2000.00 a year for hair alone. Tell her "Don't even go that with me woman..."

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

GHETTO BLASTER said:
Yeah I already started shmoozing her with the old "Think of how much money we'll save on meat",and "Oh look this one is only $268 and has a scope and case."

LMAO just don't tell her how much money it costs just to get in the woods and shoot one Deer. Stick to the "mental pacification" of the plan only. We all know too well that by the end of the season we Hunters are so far in the red it's not even a laughing matter. We hunt because it's in our blood and it's what we do by nature. We will never recover our losses no matter how many truck loads of Deer we could shoot.

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 18, 2013

I've got her uncle working on her too,he wants me to get in on a hunt club in Delaware that needs members because the older members are getting too old to do it anymore and $400 a year for 300 acres is too hard to pass up.I think I'm good as long as she doesn't do the math!

SOMDSHOOT · Aug 18, 2013

GHETTO BLASTER said:
I've got her uncle working on her too,he wants me to get in on a hunt club in Delaware that needs members because the older members are getting too old to do it anymore and $400 a year for 300 acres is too hard to pass up.I think I'm good as long as she doesn't do the math!

Well, you have all the ammo, just let us know what you decide on in the gun purchase.

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 18, 2013

Will do i'll post some pics as soon as I get it.Thanks for all the info.

Franklin · Aug 18, 2013

Wolf is a great gun, trust me.

Pyrodex and black powder are obsolete and corrosive.

Like I said you want blackhorn 209 and Alliant is making a muzzleloader powder aswell. Black ML I believe. The are both non corrosive and burn really clean for ML powder.

Shotgun vs. muzzleloader?

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