AR15 build post Oct 1st question...

SolomonsCommune · Jun 9, 2013

Not to

but I'm still trying to figure out definitively whether or not I'll be able to order AR 15 parts/complete upper to put on an already owned Lower receiver AFTER October 1st.

If I'm able to do that, then I won't bother spending the money now to finish it and spend that money on other stuff I want or need or can't get after Oct 1st.

If the Lower Receiver is the 'regulated' part of a gun, and it's already gone through the right channels before Oct 1st, then I don't know how they can control when you build the damn thing. All the other parts come shipped to your door.

Are companies going to stop shipping AR15 parts to MD?

Thanks for any answer, for all I know this topic has been done to death and I just don't see it.

SeaScorpion · Jun 9, 2013

You can buy any of the three below before Oct 1st but you can't buy the last two after October 1st**:

1. 80% lower (This is NOT considered a firearm)
2. stripped lower
3. complete lower

You can buy the parts kits to complete stripped lowers after October 1st (some suggest completing the LOWER before October 1st just to be safe though). You can also buy complete uppers after October 1st.

The only question is whether or not you can LEGALLY complete 80% lowers AFTER October 1st. Some say yes, some say they're not sure, others say definitively no you can't. As to how or if an enforcing entity could know WHEN you completed an 80% upper... well that's something entirely beyond my scope.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer or legal professional. This does not constitute legal advice. It is just a compilation of what I have read here and at other forums. I accept neither liability nor responsibility for the validity of this information. Proceed at your own risk and may god have mercy on you if you are wrong because the law won't.

elwojo · Jun 10, 2013

SeaScorpion said:
You can buy anyone of the three below before Oct 1st but you can't buy them after October 1st:

1. 80% lower
2. stripped lower
3. complete lower

You can buy the parts kits to complete lowers after October 1st (some suggest completing the LOWER before October 1st just to be safe though). You can also buy complete uppers after October 1st.

The only question is whether or not you can LEGALLY complete 80% lowers AFTER October 1st. Some say yes, some say they're not sure, others say definitively no you can't. As to how or if an enforcing entity could know WHEN you completed an 80% upper... well that's something entirely beyond my scope.

I am curious how you think an 80% lower would not be able to be bought / received / transferred after Oct 1. What specific verbiage in the law says this?

Hawkeye · Jun 10, 2013

elwojo said:
I am curious how you think an 80% lower would not be able to be bought / received / transferred after Oct 1. What specific verbiage in the law says this?

None.

An 80% lower is NOT A FIREARM. There is nothing in the law about the buying, selling, transfer, or possession of an 80% lower. Period.

rwbow1969 · Jun 10, 2013

Get the stripped lower now and spend the rest of your money on other thing that will be banned. You can build the AR later.

dlmcbm · Jun 10, 2013

I am asking this because I have no idea...When you complete a lower is there any paperwork that has to be done then? where does the serial number come from?

scott60158 · Jun 10, 2013

dlmcbm said:
I am asking this because I have no idea...When you complete a lower is there any paperwork that has to be done then? where does the serial number come from?

Typically the serial is ON the lower. So that is the part that is regulated and can be "tracked"

abean4187 · Jun 10, 2013

Hawkeye said:
None.

An 80% lower is NOT A FIREARM. There is nothing in the law about the buying, selling, transfer, or possession of an 80% lower. Period.

Totally legal to own it but I have very little hope that it will be legal to finish/manufacture it to 100% after Oct 1st.

jason.krywicki · Jun 10, 2013

So, the real question is this: if you complete an 80% lower post 10/1, then how would you register it as SB281 says you would need to do? Now, you have a grace period until sometime in Jan. of 2014 (I believe if I remember correctly). So you could technically build it in that time frame and claim you finished it prior to 10/1. I'm not recommending this as the law say after 10/1 no manufacture and finishing an 80% lower seems to be pretty clear cut manufacturing. However, after the end of the grace period, there would be no way to register it as the state would know that it was built after 10/1. You would be holding contraband at that point.

For the record, IANAL so take this for what it's worth (i.e. not much).

Jason

BigToe · Jun 10, 2013

So do you think the criminal who purchases an H-Bar after Oct. 1st, then converts it into an AR-15 pistol is worried about holding contraband?

Dave · Jun 10, 2013

it has also been said before that the same holds true for the lower. some are of the opinion that you need to have an assembled firearm come Oct 1 and not just a stripped lower. I don't have an answer for you.

either way, you can buy a 80% after Oct 1.

dlmcbm · Jun 10, 2013

scott60158 said:
Typically the serial is ON the lower. So that is the part that is regulated and can be "tracked"

I see that I was not specific... I was talking about an 80% lower.

dblas · Jun 10, 2013

dlmcbm said:
I am asking this because I have no idea...When you complete a lower is there any paperwork that has to be done then? where does the serial number come from?

If you are working from an 80% lower, no serial number is needed since you are building a firearm for your own use. Also no requirement to do any paperwork or register it before Oct 1.

If, at some point, you do decide to sell it, then you need to have a serial number engraved on it. At that point you can make up any serial number you want as well as the city, state of the build.

After Oct 1, no one really knows the answer on a build from a stripped lower, full lower or even an 80%. There are plenty of firearms based on the lower that will be legal after Oct 1, so based on that, one could surmise that lowers and building will be legal. Also some could surmise that building anything that ends up being a banned item after Oct 1 would be illegal.

Clear as mud right?

dlmcbm · Jun 10, 2013

dblas said:
If you are working from an 80% lower, no serial number is needed since you are building a firearm for your own use. Also no requirement to do any paperwork or register it before Oct 1.

If, at some point, you do decide to sell it, then you need to have a serial number engraved on it. At that point you can make up any serial number you want as well as the city, state of the build.

After Oct 1, no one really knows the answer on a build from a stripped lower, full lower or even an 80%. There are plenty of firearms based on the lower that will be legal after Oct 1, so based on that, one could surmise that lowers and building will be legal. Also some could surmise that building anything that ends up being a banned item after Oct 1 would be illegal.

Clear as mud right?

Thanks, that does clear up what I was wondering. Just had no idea how the serial number worked on 80% lowers.

dblas · Jun 10, 2013

dlmcbm said:
Thanks, that does clear up what I was wondering. Just had no idea how the serial number worked on 80% lowers.

You're quite welcome, have fun with your build if you decide to do it.

Waz · Jun 17, 2013

dblas said:
If you are working from an 80% lower, no serial number is needed since you are building a firearm for your own use. Also no requirement to do any paperwork or register it before Oct 1.

If, at some point, you do decide to sell it, then you need to have a serial number engraved on it. At that point you can make up any serial number you want as well as the city, state of the build.

After Oct 1, no one really knows the answer on a build from a stripped lower, full lower or even an 80%. There are plenty of firearms based on the lower that will be legal after Oct 1, so based on that, one could surmise that lowers and building will be legal. Also some could surmise that building anything that ends up being a banned item after Oct 1 would be illegal.

Clear as mud right?

does this also apply to AR pistol builds? since they're already "banned" but legal to build...

if i bought an 80% lower today and completed the lower (pistol or rifle) assembly before oct 1, would i be out of luck on getting the upper?

Inigoes · Jun 17, 2013

Waz said:
does this also apply to AR pistol builds? since they're already "banned" but legal to build...

if i bought an 80% lower today and completed the lower (pistol or rifle) assembly before oct 1, would i be out of luck on getting the upper?

AR pistols are not banned! You can buy a Kel-Tec, SIG.

The Bushmaster on the assault handgun list, is nothing like an AR15 pistol.

Antifeik · Jun 26, 2013

I just order a lower as well, it will be my first AR.I'm planning on building it post Oct 1, the same question, will I be able to slap any complete upper? I read the whole thread, but I'm still confuse as it seems to be different interpretations. Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been discussed previously, I'm new.

dspurlock · Jun 27, 2013

Dave said:
it has also been said before that the same holds true for the lower. some are of the opinion that you need to have an assembled firearm come Oct 1 and not just a stripped lower. I don't have an answer for you.

either way, you can buy a 80% after Oct 1.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how someone would even know if your AR was assembled or what parts you had or didn’t have before 10-1?

The only part on the weapon that is serialized is the lower and as long as it has been registered (or in the process of being registered) by 10-1, you should be good to go to assemble, add, remove or change parts anytime you want. I’m not sure I understand the logic of needing to have the whole AR complete by 10-1? How is it even enforceable?

grayson71 · Jun 27, 2013

rwbow1969 said:
Get the stripped lower now and spend the rest of your money on other thing that will be banned. You can build the AR later.

this

I bought 2 stripped lowers right before the craziness started. I had no plans for another AR, but wanted to have the lowers for later on when I want to build another rifle

AR15 build post Oct 1st question...

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