Soldier Beaten By Four Pieces Of Excrement

Tungsten · May 15, 2012

This is a good training video for the rest of us. Not only to see how quickly you can be violently attacked but also the method they used to lower his defenses. I hope the 4 pieces of crap are beaten to death in public.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories...-Army-soldier-brutally-beaten-in-South-Tampa-

HollowPoint · May 15, 2012

sad

There are no words for how awful/repugnant this is!

Makes me sick to my stomach!

SimonDanger · May 15, 2012

Two words: George Zimmerman

Question: Suppose he was carrying, what would his options have been?

Run, display, warning shot, or full-on response?

HollowPoint · May 15, 2012

SimonDanger said:
Two words: George Zimmerman

Question: Suppose he was carrying, what would his options have been?

Run, display, warning shot, or full-on response?

I was going to say something along those lines. Not sure from what you can see if he would have been able to effectively use a weapon the way he was attacked. Might have made things worse if they grabbed it from him. Perhaps a blade would have helped him get enough distance to effectively use a firearm.

Just more fuel for the fire to CC if this were in MD. Legal or not - better to be judged by 12 and live then carried by 6 and dead. Eventually, as society decays further, state action or not to allow CC, many WILL do it anyway just to survive. When the risk of attack becomes a greater threat than the state's ignorance and infringement of our rights to self defense then folks WILL carry. It's inevitable. The instinct for self preservation and survival trumps laws infringing your God given rights.

wilcam47 · May 15, 2012

BamaBob said:
This is a good training video for the rest of us. Not only to see how quickly you can be violently attacked but also the method they used to lower his defenses. I hope the 4 pieces of crap are beaten to death in public.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories...-Army-soldier-brutally-beaten-in-South-Tampa-

sickening...goes to show you how fast things turn south...gee imagine that they are wearing "hoodies" :sad20:

this is why stand your ground should stay...that soldier had every right to start shooting to kill...

MikeTF · May 15, 2012

Get 6 other guys with tasers and hide them in a van. Let one brave person go out and walk down the street as 'bait'. When the thugs come out to attack an innocent person, the 6 people jump out of the van and taser them, zip tie them, and call the police.

If there can be shows on TV about 'bait cars', there should be shows about 'bait people'.

Biggie313 · May 15, 2012

And they wonder why black males are seen as "suspicious" maybe its because people like this keep giving them a bad name by acting like animals.

HollowPoint · May 15, 2012

MikeTF said:
Get 6 other guys with tasers and hide them in a van. Let one brave person go out and walk down the street as 'bait'. When the thugs come out to attack an innocent person, the 6 people jump out of the van and taser them, zip tie them, and call the police.

If there can be shows on TV about 'bait cars', there should be shows about 'bait people'.

Vigilante justice? Again, as society decays further, vigilante justice will increase as well. This also is inevitable. Not advocating such but it doesn't take a prophet to see this is what will happen.

Sorry for all the posts in this thread but this got to me first thing in the morning. :mad54:

Indiana Jones · May 15, 2012

HollowPoint said:
I was going to say something along those lines. Not sure from what you can see if he would have been able to effectively use a weapon the way he was attacked. Might have made things worse if they grabbed it from him. Perhaps a blade would have helped him get enough distance to effectively use a firearm.

Just more fuel for the fire to CC if this were in MD. Legal or not - better to be judged by 12 and live then carried by 6 and dead. Eventually, as society decays further, state action or not to allow CC, many WILL do it anyway just to survive. When the risk of attack becomes a greater threat than the state's ignorance and infringement of our rights to self defense then folks WILL carry. It's inevitable. The instinct for self preservation and survival trumps laws infringing your God given rights.

My thoughts exactly

csanc123 · May 15, 2012

Those POS's deserve the death penalty.

With that said, this is a scenario that calls for situational awareness and ensuring one is acutely aware of their surroundings. Growing up in the "hood" you learn one thing...when someone ask you for money it's either a homeless dude or you are being set up for a robbery...no in between.

"A group of three young men is seen walking ahead of the soldier. Police say one of the men in the group doubled back and asked to soldier to borrow a dollar. When the soldier reached for his wallet, the first punch flew."

Doesn't matter where you are...keep those senses up and be ready for the worst.

Indiana Jones said:
My thoughts exactly

OrangeAgent27 · May 15, 2012

Anyone find the irony in him opening his wallet to these men and then being beaten to a pulp. What a civilization.

Tactics · May 15, 2012

Disgusting. What makes people act this way?
Some sort of Gang initiation?

The speed is frightening, and a constant reminder to stay sharp (especially when your tired at 3 in the morning).

Wishing our Soldier a safe and speedy recovery, and the attackers a warm place in hell.

wilcam47 · May 15, 2012

MikeTF said:
Get 6 other guys with tasers and hide them in a van. Let one brave person go out and walk down the street as 'bait'. When the thugs come out to attack an innocent person, the 6 people jump out of the van and taser them, zip tie them, and call the police.

If there can be shows on TV about 'bait cars', there should be shows about 'bait people'.

SimonDanger · May 15, 2012

I think the video explains that this guy's car broke down, and since he had only been living in the area for about a month, he must not have known the neighborhood well. It was 3 am, he may or may not have been coming home from a bar, which would have lowered his situational awareness...all bad decisions when it comes to staying out of situations that might get dangerous. I guess the smartest thing he should have done is to just stay in the car for a few more hours and then try walking in the daylight, after all the thugs have gone nighty-nite.

BenL · May 15, 2012

Here's your "unarmed teens" and the truth of why Treyvon Martin is dead. Unfortunately for Zimmerman, while there is evidence and witnesses of him being attacked, there's no video.

Threeband · May 15, 2012

csanc123 said:
With that said, this is a scenario that calls for situational awareness and ensuring one is acutely aware of their surroundings. Growing up in the "hood" you learn one thing...when someone ask you for money it's either a homeless dude or you are being set up for a robbery...no in between.

"A group of three young men is seen walking ahead of the soldier. Police say one of the men in the group doubled back and asked to soldier to borrow a dollar. When the soldier reached for his wallet, the first punch flew."

Doesn't matter where you are...keep those senses up and be ready for the worst.

Winner!

The attack began long before the one thug doubled back.

They had the victim positioned and bracketed: he had already walked past the fourth thug, who came running up from behind.

It's very important to recognize the pattern of attack . Your best chance is to disrupt the attack at an earlier stage.

SimonDanger said:
Question: Suppose he was carrying, what would his options have been?

Run, display, warning shot, or full-on response?

His best option was to get his head out of his ass and get out of Dodge before he even walked past thug number four. Get off the X: Turn around, go back, display a high level of alertness. Wouldn't hurt to have his right hand clear and positioned near his imaginary (or real) gun. If a thug begins to approach, speak in a loud, confident, authoritative voice, "Sorry friend; I can't help you!". perhaps blading away from the threat, holding the left/weak hand up, while moving the right/ strong hand towards 4:00. Then get the hell out of there. Run if necessary.

Using the gun is the absolute last ditch act of desperation.

If by "display", you mean "brandish", that's likely to be illegal. Still, if at an early stage you were to casually adjust your shirt to expose your holstered M&P 9c, that illegal act might save your ass. Then get the hell out of Dodge.
Don't draw unless you're about to shoot, though.

Never, never, NEVER fire a "Warning Shot". There's no such thing as a legal warning shot. Fire a warning shot and you go to prison, where you'll have to deal with lots of thugs every day.

Threeband said:
Do Not Ever Fire A "Warning Shot".

The law does not recognize such a thing as a "legal warning shot".

When you fire that gun, you are using deadly force in the eyes of the law.

If you are going to argue that you were justified in using deadly force, you'd damn well better use deadly force.
The fact that you shot into the ground instead of Center of Mass will be used as proof that you were not really in fear for your life.
Yet you did use deadly force. Thus it's a bad shoot, and you go to jail.

Shoot to stop the threat, not to scare him, or send a message, or shoot the knife out of his hand.

There have been several threads recently where people got all indignant and upset, because some good guy went to jail after firing a warning shot.
Those people were prosecuted because they fired warning shots.

You absolutely must know this stuff if you're going to take on the responsibility of keeping a gun for self defense.

.

Threeband said:
Further quick response-

You must avoid the situation in the first place. That druggie didn't just attack out of the blue. There was a whole sequence of events that led up to the attack. You can head off most attacks before they occur.

Read this stuff:

Five Stages of Violent Crime
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html

steves1911 · May 15, 2012

Words cannot describe how bad this pisses me off. Sadly vigilante justice may be the best anwser as these dirt bags dont fear the legal system anymore. If people started fighting back in numbers it might make the thugs think twice before commiting these crimes.

Rattlesnake46319 · May 15, 2012

SimonDanger said:
Two words: George Zimmerman

Question: Suppose he was carrying, what would his options have been?

Run, display, warning shot, or full-on response?

Pretty much what Threeband said. Be alert, be aware, have a plan to get out of the situation. But supposing running wasn't an option and he was carrying, shoot to stop the threat. I cannot emphasize this enough, IF YOU DRAW YOUR WEAPON, YOU HAD BETTER BE PREPARED TO USE IT. Do not brandish or fire a warning shot. Not only are both illegal, but you've just tipped off the bad guy that you have a weapon and may not be willing to use it.

SimonDanger · May 15, 2012

Threeband said:
...If by "display", you mean "brandish", that's likely to be illegal. Still, if at an early stage you were to casually adjust your shirt to expose your holstered M&P 9c, that illegal act might save your ass. Then get the hell out of Dodge.
Don't draw unless you're about to shoot, though.

Never, never, NEVER fire a "Warning Shot". There's no such thing as a legal warning shot. Fire a warning shot and you go to prison, where you'll have to deal with lots of thugs every day.

I get that....but it's also illegal to jump, rob or/and kill me, but then they aren't exactly law-abiding citizens. I guess what I should have said is what if i happen to miss with my first shot, you know, because i was scared for my life and all? I know this is slightly controversial, but it seems to me there are two different responses to this scenario: The first is to do whatever you have to do in a life-threatening situation, and the other is to be prepared for the legal consequences in the event you are not dead. :innocent0

Threeband · May 15, 2012

SimonDanger said:
I get that....but it's also illegal to jump, rob or/and kill me, but then they aren't exactly law-abiding citizens. I guess what I should have said is what if i happen to miss with my first shot, you know, because i was scared for my life and all? I know this is slightly controversial, but it seems to me there are two different responses to this scenario: The first is to do whatever you have to do in a life-threatening situation, and the other is to be prepared for the legal consequences in the event you are not dead.

You're jumping right past

Stage One

Stage Two

Stage Three

and

Stage Four

If you've muddled yourself all the way up to

Stage Five

then there's a very good chance you will miss with your first shot.

You shoot to stop the threat. You shoot until the threat is stopped.

Threeband said:
There are no black/white yes/no right/wrong answers here. There are only arguments. That's why I'm not saying you are justified, only that you can argue that you're justified.

If you kill your attacker, you have committed HOMICIDE. The willfull taking of a human life is Homicide, there is no question of that. Now your lawyer must argue that it was JUSTIFIABLE Homicide. Your only justification must be that you were in immediate fear for your life. (There is a possible defense in protecting a third person, but you're getting out on thin ice there.)

You were threatened with deadly force. You believed that, unless you stopped the threat, you would die. So you used deadly force solely to stop the immediate threat.

Note, you don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the threat. But to do that, you must stop your attacker's ability to attack you, by inflicting massive physical trauma as quickly as possible. Since even the most powerful handguns are marginal and unreliable manstoppers, you need to deliver multiple rounds center of mass as fast as possible. You shoot until the threat is stopped.

If you start playing Hollywood, firing warning shots, it's pretty obvious you felt like you had the situation under control. You didn't believe you were going to be killed. Now you are the one using deadly force.

That guy with the knife? Damn right that's a deadly threat. Read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_n10_v36/ai_11549909/

Go read those links, and consider signing up for this course.

.

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