Benelli M4 Owners... A question for you!

crolfe1984 · Aug 13, 2013

Dave_E71 said:
Local shop, they have a couple of the standard fixed stock pistol grip M4s (11707)... When they said "hey, look what we got in" and then disappeared like my account balance when I asked the price and they said "we paid the same as for the fixed stock version, so we're selling them for the same price..."

That's exactly what I was told. My shop (Bart's) had long been waiting on an order and one day five of them came in at once. Four of them were standard 11707 models, and then there was this one was-the black sheep of the lot. They too did not pay any more for it and in-turn did not charge me more for it. Hell, I think they gave me a great price (and great service too) on it regardless of the model. It being an XM1014 was just the icing on the cake.

Dave_E71 said:
You got a hell of a deal! Where? At that price I might need another

Bart's Sports World. I do think however this was the only true XM1014 of the lot.

Dave_E71 said:
Like SCARCQB said, the biggest problem with the deal on this gun is the 922r parts I had to order to put the full length mag tube on it

Absolutely... I don't think I want to replace the entire Benelli trigger pack for the additional two rounds. Also by the time you add the the trigger parts, follower, and mag tube from a decent manufacturer you've spent $400 for a +2 extension. Albeit you now have a legal military copy of the M4! 7 rounds with a ghost load is plenty for me :thumbsup:

crolfe1984 · Aug 13, 2013

On another note... since all the XM1014 owners are coming out of the woodwork... who else joined the (lucky) club unknowingly?!

Would be interesting to find out if Benelli botched their last shipment and sent out way more $$$ guns than they should have.

fabsroman · Aug 13, 2013

smores said:
Do they have any left? Lol... a friend of mine wants an XM1014.

You guys got a HELL of a deal.

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Can't you just buy the standard version with the pistol grip stock and then replace the stock? What other difference is there between the two? Then, you can add the mag extension tube without having to worry about the 922 issue. Do I have something confused here because this is my plan next year.

Dave_E71 · Aug 13, 2013

crolfe1984 said:
..... Hell, I think they gave me a great price (and great service too) on it regardless of the model. It being an XM1014 was just the icing on the cake.

Bart's Sports World. I do think however this was the only true XM1014 of the lot.

Nope, I know there was at least one more and I think maybe a couple

crolfe1984 said:
Absolutely... I don't think I want to replace the entire Benelli trigger pack for the additional two rounds. Also by the time you add the the trigger parts, follower, and mag tube from a decent manufacturer you've spent $400 for a +2 extension. Albeit you now have a legal military copy of the M4! 7 rounds with a ghost load is plenty for me

You're within 5 bucks, 7 round tube, knurled charging handle, trigger, hammer, sear and follower from Freedom Fighter Tactical. On the up side, while it's not going to be the Jewell that I have in my National Match rifles, from research, I understand the US made trigger parts have a better feel than the factory parts

Has anyone found current (not preliminary) online copies of,
TM 10698A-10/1; Operator’s Manual, Combat, 12 gauge, Semi-automatic, M1014.
and
TM 10698A-23B&P/2; Maintenance Manual, Shotgun, Combat, 12 gauge, Semi-automatic, M1014.

I got the above information from TM 8000-10/1D

Dave

carpecervisi · Aug 13, 2013

Congrats to you XM1014 owners...awesome shotties. Makes my 930SPX jealous every time one comes out of the woodwork.

smores · Aug 13, 2013

fabsroman said:
Can't you just buy the standard version with the pistol grip stock and then replace the stock? What other difference is there between the two? Then, you can add the mag extension tube without having to worry about the 922 issue. Do I have something confused here because this is my plan next year.

Well, from what I understand, the M4 is considered a "sporting" shotgun, while the version with pistol grip and collapsible stock is not.

In fact, the guns that become LE guns enter the country with a fixed stock (since non-sporting shotguns are not importable) and the collapsible stocks are installed in Accokeek. The 14" barrels also come in at 18" and are cut.

If you install an extended tube on an M4, it must be US made, and you will need 2 other US-made parts to be 922r compliant (3 US made parts total). The collapsible stock and pistol grip are separate parts, so adding those requires a total of 4 US parts.

If a gun is purchased from a dealer as an XM1014 and for such a good price... why worry about a conversion?

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fabsroman · Aug 13, 2013

smores said:
Well, from what I understand, the M4 is considered a "sporting" shotgun, while the version with pistol grip and collapsible stock is not.

In fact, the guns that become LE guns enter the country with a fixed stock (since non-sporting shotguns are not importable) and the collapsible stocks are installed in Accokeek. The 14" barrels also come in at 18" and are cut.

If you install an extended tube on an M4, it must be US made, and you will need 2 other US-made parts to be 922r compliant (3 US made parts total). The collapsible stock and pistol grip are separate parts, so adding those requires a total of 4 US parts.

If a gun is purchased from a dealer as an XM1014 and for such a good price... why worry about a conversion?

Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

So, I can get it with the non-pistol grip stock and it will be considered a sporting shotgun? Then, I would not have to worry about 922r? What happens if you get the XM1014? Can't put a mag extension on it without changing out other parts too, correct?

I honestly have no idea what the heck the reasoning is behind all this modification BS and 922r? What was the reason for that portion of the law? Just to prevent the importation of non-sporting guns?

dungslinger · Aug 13, 2013

I love the 1014. carried it for 13 months never had an issue.

smores · Aug 13, 2013

fabsroman said:
So, I can get it with the non-pistol grip stock and it will be considered a sporting shotgun? Then, I would not have to worry about 922r? What happens if you get the XM1014? Can't put a mag extension on it without changing out other parts too, correct?

I honestly have no idea what the heck the reasoning is behind all this modification BS and 922r? What was the reason for that portion of the law? Just to prevent the importation of non-sporting guns?

Basically, from what I understand 922r started almost completely because of guns like the Striker (aka "Street Sweeper") shotgun, which was imported from South Africa. After the Clinton ban became law, a bunch of subsections were added to 922, such as (r), (v) and (w) to thwart the building of "assault weapons" in the US. The companies that made the guns overseas quickly shipped parts over so they could be built here... thus they made it law that any non-sporting long gun could only contain 10 foreign major components as defined by ATF. Things like the receivers, bolts, barrels etc. The Striker was doomed anyway because it was deemed a destructive device....

Nonetheless. 922r is annoying to us, and largely considered to be an unenforced law. Manufacturers and importers don't want to risk prosecution so they comply.

So in short, yes, the factory Benelli m4 is considered a sporting gun, and therefore importable as a 100% Italian-made gun. To stay 922r conpliant to the letter of the law, as far as I know, you need to put the US parts in once you alter the gun to a "nonsporting purpose". The ATF never strictly defines what that is, but they do mention "military-style" shotguns with features like "folding or telescoping stocks" to be nonsporting. It can be argued that using a mag tube extension is nonsporting since most shotguns are plugged to 2 rounds in the tube anyway... it's clear as mud. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly

Basically, there are relatively inexpensive parts (magazine follower, hammer, handguards, mag tubes) available to keep you compliant, so why not do it? Or you can roll hard and not care about 922r. From what I understand it's not illegal to posess a non-compliant gun, only to manufacture or import one.

I'm not a lawyer, I just work in the industry so I have to understand this stuff to some degree. I don't personally build non-compliant builds. BUT I think the law is crap. :shrug:

For compliance parts, CarrierComp, Geiselle, Surefire and others make what you need. Lots of info on the Benelli forums too.

Si vis pacem para bellum

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crolfe1984 · Aug 13, 2013

dungslinger said:
I love the 1014. carried it for 13 months never had an issue.

Glad to hear! What ammo did you put through it?

fabsroman said:
So, I can get it with the non-pistol grip stock and it will be considered a sporting shotgun? Then, I would not have to worry about 922r? What happens if you get the XM1014? Can't put a mag extension on it without changing out other parts too, correct?

I honestly have no idea what the heck the reasoning is behind all this modification BS and 922r? What was the reason for that portion of the law? Just to prevent the importation of non-sporting guns?

The law (922r) is annoying yes, but it IS the LAW and should be followed. Essentially the civilian version of the M4 that can be purchased is the pistol grip, fixed stock, 5 round mag tube "Benelli M4 Super 90" (also designated by the model code 11707). The imported LE version comes with all the same features, but has a 3 position collapsible stock and is designated as a "Benelli M4 Super 90 XM1014". From what I've read these true factory XM1014's are rare and seldom seen in the civilian market. Take a look on gun broker for an XM1014 and see what comes up. The modern military version is the same as the LE variant but has a 7 round mag tube and is commonly known as the M1014.

In order to take a standard M4 Super 90 and make it look/function like an LE XM1014 or military model several part changes are in order to comply with 922r. Mainly the trigger group, follower, mag tube, and (or) the stock must be of US origin and they must replace the made in Italy factory parts.

TL;DR... Take a stock M4 and add $400-$500 worth of quality US made parts to own a LEGAL collapsible stock, 7 round mag Benelli M4. Or get lucky and find a rare factory XM1014.

fabsroman · Aug 13, 2013

smores said:
Basically, from what I understand 922r started almost completely because of guns like the Striker (aka "Street Sweeper") shotgun, which was imported from South Africa. After the Clinton ban became law, a bunch of subsections were added to 922, such as (r), (v) and (w) to thwart the building of "assault weapons" in the US. The companies that made the guns overseas quickly shipped parts over so they could be built here... thus they made it law that any non-sporting long gun could only contain 10 foreign major components as defined by ATF. Things like the receivers, bolts, barrels etc. The Striker was doomed anyway because it was deemed a destructive device....

Nonetheless. 922r is annoying to us, and largely considered to be an unenforced law. Manufacturers and importers don't want to risk prosecution so they comply.

So in short, yes, the factory Benelli m4 is considered a sporting gun, and therefore importable as a 100% Italian-made gun. To stay 922r conpliant to the letter of the law, as far as I know, you need to put the US parts in once you alter the gun to a "nonsporting purpose". The ATF never strictly defines what that is, but they do mention "military-style" shotguns with features like "folding or telescoping stocks" to be nonsporting. It can be argued that using a mag tube extension is nonsporting since most shotguns are plugged to 2 rounds in the tube anyway... it's clear as mud. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly

Basically, there are relatively inexpensive parts (magazine follower, hammer, handguards, mag tubes) available to keep you compliant, so why not do it? Or you can roll hard and not care about 922r. From what I understand it's not illegal to posess a non-compliant gun, only to manufacture or import one.

I'm not a lawyer, I just work in the industry so I have to understand this stuff to some degree. I don't personally build non-compliant builds. BUT I think the law is crap.

For compliance parts, CarrierComp, Geiselle, Surefire and others make what you need. Lots of info on the Benelli forums too.

Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under the…[GCA]…Section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….

Click to expand...

I don't know about this BS. How would the gun not be readily adaptable to sporting purposes if I swap out the stock and put a 2 round mag extender on it. Depends on what "readily adaptable" means. Bet I could get it back to its "sporting" configuration in less than 30 minutes. Would that be readily enough?

I never really paid much attention to this stuff because most of my gun hobby is spent busting clays or wingshooting, with a little big game hunting here and there. The amount of laws dealing with these "assault weapons" is utterly baffling. The lack of clarity in the laws is also insane. The chance that a normally law abiding citizen can get into trouble based upon these laws is also insane. I know plenty of people that would have no clue that swapping the stock on the Benelli M4 could get them in trouble.

Heck, the definition in 18 USC 925(d)(3) includes "readily adaptable for sporting purposes" within it. So, the AG could authorize the importation of a firearm that is not actually a sporting firearm, but one that is "readily adaptable for sporting purposes".

Yep, completely insane.

The guidance provided by the ATF website is about worthless too.

fabsroman · Aug 13, 2013

crolfe1984 said:
Glad to hear! What ammo did you put through it?

The law (922r) is annoying yes, but it IS the LAW and should be followed. Essentially the civilian version of the M4 that can be purchased is the pistol grip, fixed stock, 5 round mag tube "Benelli M4 Super 90" (also designated by the model code 11707). The imported LE version comes with all the same features, but has a 3 position collapsible stock and is designated as a "Benelli M4 Super 90 XM1014". From what I've read these true factory XM1014's are rare and seldom seen in the civilian market. Take a look on gun broker for an XM1014 and see what comes up. The modern military version is the same as the LE variant but has a 7 round mag tube and is commonly known as the M1014.

In order to take a standard M4 Super 90 and make it look/function like an LE XM1014 or military model several part changes are in order to comply with 922r. Mainly the trigger group, follower, mag tube, and (or) the stock must be of US origin and they must replace the made in Italy factory parts.

TL;DR... Take a stock M4 and add $400-$500 worth of quality US made parts to own a LEGAL collapsible stock, 7 round mag Benelli M4. Or get lucky and find a rare factory XM1014.

There is a guy on gunbroker right now selling a M1014.

Is the XM1014 a NFA item?

Is the M1014 a NFA item?

SCARCQB · Aug 13, 2013

Freakin 922 cost me ammo money
I had to replace the following
mag tube
Follower
Trigger
Hammer
Disconnector
Front forearm
Stock( Urbino)

That makes it just as expensive as a factory H2O

But.... It is still the best shotgun that I have ever shot. It was worth the time and effort.

smores · Aug 13, 2013

crolfe1984 said:
Glad to hear! What ammo did you put through it?

The law (922r) is annoying yes, but it IS the LAW and should be followed. Essentially the civilian version of the M4 that can be purchased is the pistol grip, fixed stock, 5 round mag tube "Benelli M4 Super 90" (also designated by the model code 11707). The imported LE version comes with all the same features, but has a 3 position collapsible stock and is designated as a "Benelli M4 Super 90 XM1014". From what I've read these true factory XM1014's are rare and seldom seen in the civilian market. Take a look on gun broker for an XM1014 and see what comes up. The modern military version is the same as the LE variant but has a 7 round mag tube and is commonly known as the M1014.

In order to take a standard M4 Super 90 and make it look/function like an LE XM1014 or military model several part changes are in order to comply with 922r. Mainly the trigger group, follower, mag tube, and (or) the stock must be of US origin and they must replace the made in Italy factory parts.

TL;DR... Take a stock M4 and add $400-$500 worth of quality US made parts to own a LEGAL collapsible stock, 7 round mag Benelli M4. Or get lucky and find a rare factory XM1014.

A minor point, but Benellis are not imported with the collapsible stock, or a full length mag tube. Ask me how I know.

They come with or without the limiter, but the factory gun, with an 8-round mag tube is actually the standard tube with an extension, not a solid tube like many aftermarket systems. They are converted after they pass through customs and arrive in the US.

I don't know how the ones used by USMC are procured but I have never personally laid my hands on one. Every one I have handled has been commercial or sold to LE agencies and distributors.

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crolfe1984 · Aug 13, 2013

fabsroman said:
Is the XM1014 a NFA item?

Is the M1014 a NFA item?

Neither version is an NFA item unless you are purchasing them as an SBS. I think the factory SBS models are coming with a 14" barrel.

smores · Aug 13, 2013

crolfe1984 said:
Neither version is an NFA item unless you are purchasing them as an SBS. I think the factory SBS models are coming with a 14" barrel.

That is correct. I don't remember the product code, but all the Benelli tactical guns (M1, M2, M3 and M4) are available to LE as 14" "Entry" models.

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Jimbob2.0 · Aug 14, 2013

Anyone an M3 fan here? The M4 is a fine gun but the convertible M3's I have handled have been awesome.

fabsroman · Aug 14, 2013

crolfe1984 said:
Neither version is an NFA item unless you are purchasing them as an SBS. I think the factory SBS models are coming with a 14" barrel.

Thank you and Smores too, even though he abandoned ship. lol

smores · Aug 14, 2013

Jimbob2.0 said:
Anyone an M3 fan here? The M4 is a fine gun but the convertible M3's I have handled have been awesome.

The concept is cool
but I have heard from those in the know that LE departments dislike them because they are more complicated and difficult to switch between pump/semi under stress.

I do like them though... they're neat. One of my best friends had one but sold it, so I've handled and shot one a few times. Nothing wrong, he had just lost interest.

fabsroman said:
Thank you and Smores too, even though he abandoned ship. lol

Do you blame me? Lol. I still work in MD and most of my family is there. I'm fighting for 2A on two fronts now!

Si vis pacem para bellum

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fabsroman · Aug 14, 2013

smores said:
The concept is cool
but I have heard from those in the know that LE departments dislike them because they are more complicated and difficult to switch between pump/semi under stress.

I do like them though... they're neat. One of my best friends had one but sold it, so I've handled and shot one a few times. Nothing wrong, he had just lost interest.

Do you blame me? Lol. I still work in MD and most of my family is there. I'm fighting for 2A on two fronts now!

Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

Had no idea that the M3 also had a pump function on it.

No, I do not blame you. I was looking at places in Richmond back in February. The entire 2012 election and SB281 have turned my stomach on politics in Maryland. Just too many other factors that are keeping me here right now.

While Virginia is not as bad as Maryland (i.e., the Titanic), it is taking on water. Could have also made a Hindenburg reference too.

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