1916 Mauser sporter 7MM

tallen702 · Apr 23, 2017

Here's some interesting info on 7x57 (and yes, it's old ammo pressures like you'd find with surplus).

The SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) for this cartridge is 51,000 psi (351.63 MPa) piezo pressure or 46,000 CUP. Although this lower specification is in deference to the purportedly weaker actions of the older Mauser 93 and 95 rifles which are still in circulation, this concern is misplaced, as the original ammunition developed for, and issued with, the M93 Spanish Mauser produced an average pressure of 50,370 CUP in those rifles. source of information used

So, if you run an average pressure of 46,000 CUP/51,000 PSI, you'll actually be below the average pressure of the old surplus ammo. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

toolness1 · Apr 23, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
Was going through my Lyman Cast Bullets book and noticed something.

Take a look at the chamber pressures between the 7x57 Mauser and the .308 Winchester.

There's been lots of talk about the Spanish .308s not being able to take too much chamber pressure. But the 7x57 seems to be a hotter cartridge all the way around. My only thought is that the same weight bullet with the same weight powder charge is being forced through a smaller bore.

What say Y'all?

View attachment 203576

View attachment 203577

Larry Gibson said he tested a bunch of 7x57 surplus against .308 and 7.62 NATO ammo and found several to be well above commercial .308 and 7.62 NATO surplus pressure.

tallen702 · Apr 24, 2017

Did anyone here go to the Chantilly Show this past weekend? There was a table that had $99 "Blowout Special" 7x57 1916s stacked up on a rack. They looked like they'd been dug out of a swamp in southeast Asia and then used for batting practice by a kid's t-ball league. I wish I'd grabbed a picture. They were just AWFUL. They make some of the ones you guys posted recently look like mint-condition safe-queens. And yet, they had the audacity to try to sell them for $99/ea.....

ken792 · Apr 24, 2017

tallen702 said:
Did anyone here go to the Chantilly Show this past weekend? There was a table that had $99 "Blowout Special" 7x57 1916s stacked up on a rack. They looked like they'd been dug out of a swamp in southeast Asia and then used for batting practice by a kid's t-ball league. I wish I'd grabbed a picture. They were just AWFUL. They make some of the ones you guys posted recently look like mint-condition safe-queens. And yet, they had the audacity to try to sell them for $99/ea.....

Yes, I saw about two with decent wood though. The bores were pretty bad, but I supposed they'd still fire and put rounds on target.

tallen702 · Apr 24, 2017

ken792 said:
Yes, I saw about two with decent wood though. The bores were pretty bad, but I supposed they'd still fire and put rounds on target.

Those were likely gone by the time I got there then. Everything I saw was cracked, chipped, etc.

ken792 · Apr 24, 2017

tallen702 said:
Those were likely gone by the time I got there then. Everything I saw was cracked, chipped, etc.

There was one 7mm left yesterday afternoon that at least had the wood around the cleaning rod and rear band spring intact. I don't know how the rest of it was though since I didn't bother to pick it up.

Doco Overboard · Apr 24, 2017

tallen702 said:
Here's some interesting info on 7x57 (and yes, it's old ammo pressures like you'd find with surplus).

So, if you run an average pressure of 46,000 CUP/51,000 PSI, you'll actually be below the average pressure of the old surplus ammo. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

I don't see what rifle they are doing testing with in the article you supplied and what US magazine rifle were they comparing it to? Its pretty old but a good read. Personally I would stick with a 98 because of its additional strength and gas handling capabilities but that's just me I'm pretty conservative. I would be more concerned shooting a 93-95 in 7.62 regularly than any low number Springfield. I don't even know if I would be up for a 96 in 308 which could arguably be the best manufactured Mauser action made. I have seen and read reports of guys doing plenty of shooting in .30 small rings I just don't see any benefit to it when there are plenty of more suitable actions available. There's a reason ole one eye Paul kept advancing the design. The last 7x57 that I built was a 98. It was always tempting to build something on the earlier actions because of the availability and price but I couldn't see investing the time or money into something that may not last. Not to mention the additional steps like adjusting the feed rails alone and winding up with a dud or something that's not dependable.

mrbig381 · Apr 24, 2017

Those $99 specials are from Gibbs in WVA. They have a $hitload in their warehouse. Now sure if they do walk in sales but it may be worth a call.

tallen702 · Apr 24, 2017

Doco Overboard said:
I don't see what rifle they are doing testing with in the article you supplied and what US magazine rifle were they comparing it to? Its pretty old but a good read. Personally I would stick with a 98 because of its additional strength and gas handling capabilities but that's just me I'm pretty conservative. I would be more concerned shooting a 93-95 in 7.62 regularly than any low number Springfield. I don't even know if I would be up for a 96 in 308 which could arguably be the best manufactured Mauser action made. I have seen and read reports of guys doing plenty of shooting in .30 small rings I just don't see any benefit to it when there are plenty of more suitable actions available. There's a reason ole one eye Paul kept advancing the design. The last 7x57 that I built was a 98. It was always tempting to build something on the earlier actions because of the availability and price but I couldn't see investing the time or money into something that may not last. Not to mention the additional steps like adjusting the feed rails alone and winding up with a dud or something that's not dependable.

IIRC, they were captures from the Spanish-American war, but I could be wrong. Not sure if they were using it to test for cartridge power and the '03 action, or something else though.

I wouldn't purposefully build one on a small ring action, but have one of the Guardia Civil conversions, so I shoot it.... rarely. I think that for the average Fudd out there thinking it's okay to put thousands of rounds through it without ever checking head-space, it's a bad idea. But as someone who understands the realities of the action and the pros and cons of metallurgical methods at the time of its construction, I feel fairly confident I'm not going to do myself any harm. Eventually they'll suffer from setback if you're pounding away with full-power hunting loads, but I fire 7.62 NATO out of mine, and not .308, so I'm putting less stress on the action. It should be noted that the Spaniards did take gas control into account and installed a side vent on the left walls of all of their converted receivers. The idea being that he gas escapes to the shooter's left before ever pushing back through the lug channels. How functionally realistic this is, who knows, but it's at least a consideration.

Doco Overboard · Apr 24, 2017

They are handy little rifles and certainly would pack a good wallop in 7x57 let alone any 30 cal. Somewhere I have a tutorial where Reid Coffield fits one in 45acp. The rifles in this thread turned out pretty good I think even though they were a little rough to start cant beat em for enjoyment.

Melnic · Apr 24, 2017

tallen702 said:
Did anyone here go to the Chantilly Show this past weekend? There was a table that had $99 "Blowout Special" 7x57 1916s stacked up on a rack. They looked like they'd been dug out of a swamp in southeast Asia and then used for batting practice by a kid's t-ball league. I wish I'd grabbed a picture. They were just AWFUL. They make some of the ones you guys posted recently look like mint-condition safe-queens. And yet, they had the audacity to try to sell them for $99/ea.....

The ones that were available last year were SOO much better. I thought about getting one as a bubba restoration project but declined. I actually had found one at HoCo with a crest but passed when I found the Persian Mauser. Those at the show were sewer pits. and were only worthy of using to arm your enemy.

tallen702 · Apr 24, 2017

Melnic said:
The ones that were available last year were SOO much better. I thought about getting one as a bubba restoration project but declined. I actually had found one at HoCo with a crest but passed when I found the Persian Mauser. Those at the show were sewer pits. and were only worthy of using to arm your enemy.

Agree 100% on the condition. Even the 7.62 conversions they had were beat to hell. I honestly think these were likely one of those nice little secrets of the Milsurp world until recently. Now you've got a bunch of younger guys getting into collecting who don't have the money for a K98 or Persian so they are grabbing these due to the low cost. I wish I had picked up a 7x57 when I had a chance at a good one. Who knows though. There might be one out there for me somewhere still. My 1916 is the 7.62NATO conversion and I'm definitely happy with it.

Doco Overboard said:
They are handy little rifles and certainly would pack a good wallop in 7x57 let alone any 30 cal. Somewhere I have a tutorial where Reid Coffield fits one in 45acp. The rifles in this thread turned out pretty good I think even though they were a little rough to start cant beat em for enjoyment.

I actually sold one of the 7.62 conversion rifles I got in my bunch to someone who intends to do the .45ACP conversion.

Speaking of, here's my 7.62 conversion. The last picture is of the vent hole that sits 90 degrees south of the top locking lug recess. The idea is that this is the channel most likely to funnel gasses in the case of a case head failure and thus, would vent directly out the side at the lugs instead of rearward to the shooter.

Also, Smoothbore, I looked around for another muzzle cap, but I must have given my last one away. Sorry!

toolness1 · Apr 24, 2017

Doco Overboard said:
I don't see what rifle they are doing testing with in the article you supplied and what US magazine rifle were they comparing it to? Its pretty old but a good read. Personally I would stick with a 98 because of its additional strength and gas handling capabilities but that's just me I'm pretty conservative. I would be more concerned shooting a 93-95 in 7.62 regularly than any low number Springfield. I don't even know if I would be up for a 96 in 308 which could arguably be the best manufactured Mauser action made. I have seen and read reports of guys doing plenty of shooting in .30 small rings I just don't see any benefit to it when there are plenty of more suitable actions available. There's a reason ole one eye Paul kept advancing the design. The last 7x57 that I built was a 98. It was always tempting to build something on the earlier actions because of the availability and price but I couldn't see investing the time or money into something that may not last. Not to mention the additional steps like adjusting the feed rails alone and winding up with a dud or something that's not dependable.

I have a 7.62 NATO field gauge and will be keeping my eye on headspace as well as shooting very mild loads. No reason to press your luck, especially when you can load your own. I definitely wouldn't have been interested in one if my only option was commercial or surplus ammo, I always like to play it safe when it comes to my eyes and face!

smoothebore · Apr 25, 2017

FWIW, there's a bunch of 1916's on Gunbroker right now, looking decent, w/cleaning rods, and pretty decent money. I'm still working on the clunker I got.

Redcat · Apr 25, 2017

mrbig381 said:
Those $99 specials are from Gibbs in WVA. They have a $hitload in their warehouse. Now sure if they do walk in sales but it may be worth a call.

They're also selling them online through Old Western Scrounger, an affiliated company, but for $109.

http://www.ows-ammo.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25

iH8DemLibz · Apr 25, 2017

You can go to any marine supply store and buy boat oars for a lot less than $109.

Doco Overboard · Apr 25, 2017

Sarco has actions for 79.00 right now.

toolness1 · May 6, 2017

If you look at the pics I posted of mine, which were the sellers pics, you'll see there's a crack repair on the wrist of the stock.

Well, the rifle wasn't packed very well and got thrown around during shipping, and that repair opened up sometime during it's travels to my house.

For the price I paid, I decided to just fix it myself instead of complain to the seller and return it. I really like the rifle, and I can always use the practice since I suck at Stock repair.

I'll post a pic when I'm done, but here is a pic of it in the middle of repair... As you can see I'm drilling out the dowel used in the previous repair and replacing it with a screw as well. I'll also be bedding the cross-bolt area in case the rear of the action is slamming the stock.

I first opened up the crack and cleaned it really well with acetone. Then I injected epoxy down into the crack with a syringe, then clamped the heck out of it. Once that totally dried, I drilled the holes for the repair screws. I filled the holes with epoxy and then installed the screws. They don't go completely through so I'll only have to do clean-up on one side.

I think it will be a very strong repair!

I'm also de-bubba'ing a M38 Carcano that was sporterized. I got a replacement stock from Sarco, it's actually a really nice stock. Not sure if it's a aftermarket replacement or a NOS military stock. No markings, so I am guessing it's aftermarket. But, it's needing lots of inletting, a job I've never done before. It's been very slow going, but I almost have it. I got all the forward stock hardware from different places since it was all missing as the stock was cut down to just forward of the handguard.

smoothebore · May 6, 2017

I finally got the replacement firing pin from Numrich, and got the 1916 Spanish Clunker back together. It shoots nice, just a foot to the right at 100 yds. The front sight is bent. I got some of the PPU 139gr ammo. Also shot about a half dozen of the old military round nose stuff. It was definitely hotter, with two hang-fires, that felt like shooting a flintlock.

Since I had gotten into a new caliber with the 7x57, I didn't want the old clunker to feel lonely, so I bought a Chilean 1912 Steyr. It also has the stronger '98 action. I'll try to get some pics together.

iH8DemLibz · May 6, 2017

Looks like everyone is finishing up their 1916s.

The cleaning rod arrived from APEX Gun Parts, but it doesn't lock into the rod cutout. Makes the rifle look more complete though.

And that new extractor really slings the brass. Good little gun.

1916 Mauser sporter 7MM

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