NRA ILA Email WRT House Bill 159

Patrick said:

If she's made it personal then count me corrected. My dealings with her in the past were not personally acrimonious (quite the opposite). But if she's morphed into something else, I'm glad to be informed.

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Rack&Roll said:

You just don't get it, which is why I am glad you no longer speak for anyone other than yourself.

She is a Frosh-hole, and has made it personal by being an intractable enemy when it comes to a Constitutional right she despises.

YOU can sit down with her for "coffee talk" until you drown from Moca Lattes, but she ain't coming around.

While you are busy offering foot rubs... I, and quite a few others, will dispense with useless pleasantries, and treat these vacuous "Moms" with the same disdain they reserve for us.

You are obviously bedazzled with their coquettish smiles.

I only see their teeth.

.

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Gryphon said:

I take all of my fundamental individual rights, and anyone who tries to restrict or abolish them, very, very personally. The fact that it's coming from an elitist Mom, claiming to do it "for the children," with a SJW smirk while casting her charm spell doesn't make it any less personal for me. YMMV

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Patrick said:

I've obviously touched a rail here, and honestly should have known better than to suggest venting in a friendly place is a bad thing. Sorry for that. Trust me I know the feeling. I mistook that venting for a call for action. My mistake, obviously.

. . .

My point: know the opposition, or fail.

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Patrick said:

Have some more caffeine; you seem to be a little mild this morning. Your response is priceless and I look forward to more erudition from you.

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Patrick said:

I've obviously touched a rail here, and honestly should have known better than to suggest venting in a friendly place is a bad thing. Sorry for that. Trust me I know the feeling. I mistook that venting for a call for action. My mistake, obviously.

My larger point is a simple one: when you focus energy on the personnel you are distracted from your goal. I've seen it first hand.

Understanding the motivations of your opponent is important. So many pro-2A activists think that gun controllers know they are wrong but do not care. Not true. Most of them believe they are doing the right thing. Acknowledging this is important when you frame counter-arguments with people who can change outcomes. As we've seen in current politics, just pointing and calling someone icky names backfires.

The state Dem leadership banned their officials from sitting down and talking with us, after the first several who spent time with us helped make significant changes to FSA 2013. That didn't happen through name calling.

Hint: banning guns was not the primary goal of FSA 2013 - the goal was to criminalize the ownership of firearms. There is a big difference between the state preventing us from buying we want, and having the state arrest us tomorrow for something we legally owned yesterday. That was the primary goal of FSA and we came dangerously close to that reality.

We avoided that by understanding the views on the other side and framing our position in relative terms. The top players (Bloomberg, Frosh, Miller and O'Malley) were obviously intending us harm, but most of the lawmakers on the Dem side of the aisle weren't in it to hurt people - they thought FSA would be beneficial. Understanding why opened the door to pointing out how aspects of the approach would make things much worse. I promise that simply calling names and shouting would have kept that door closed, and resulted in a world where people on this board would have been charged by now.

My point: know the opposition, or fail.

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Patrick said:

I've obviously touched a rail here, and honestly should have known better than to suggest venting in a friendly place is a bad thing. Sorry for that. Trust me I know the feeling. I mistook that venting for a call for action. My mistake, obviously.

My larger point is a simple one: when you focus energy on the personnel you are distracted from your goal. I've seen it first hand.

Understanding the motivations of your opponent is important. So many pro-2A activists think that gun controllers know they are wrong but do not care. Not true. Most of them believe they are doing the right thing. Acknowledging this is important when you frame counter-arguments with people who can change outcomes. As we've seen in current politics, just pointing and calling someone icky names backfires.

The state Dem leadership banned their officials from sitting down and talking with us, after the first several who spent time with us helped make significant changes to FSA 2013. That didn't happen through name calling.

Hint: banning guns was not the primary goal of FSA 2013 - the goal was to criminalize the ownership of firearms. There is a big difference between the state preventing us from buying we want, and having the state arrest us tomorrow for something we legally owned yesterday. That was the primary goal of FSA and we came dangerously close to that reality.

We avoided that by understanding the views on the other side and framing our position in relative terms. The top players (Bloomberg, Frosh, Miller and O'Malley) were obviously intending us harm, but most of the lawmakers on the Dem side of the aisle weren't in it to hurt people - they thought FSA would be beneficial. Understanding why opened the door to pointing out how aspects of the approach would make things much worse. I promise that simply calling names and shouting would have kept that door closed, and resulted in a world where people on this board would have been charged by now.

My point: know the opposition, or fail.

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Gryphon said:

Couldn't just let it go?

Yes you should have known you were touching a rail in here. In your Post #15, you stated Jen is pretty nice, not trying to hurt anyone, and that she is "doing the right thing." Try if you must, but you will never square that with her and her org's jihad to further infringe on our fundamental and enumerated right of self-defense. No one was venting, and you were trying to tell us we need not confront one of the anti's self-proclaimed leaders because she is a nice albeit misguided person.

You can sip lattes, rub her feet and praise her all you want at Starbucks, but when you come in here and sound like her personal apologist you should have expected to see a few sparks.

Now you are suggesting we should only focus on their argument, and not identify the messenger as well. Screw that, the messenger is their leader and we can and are doing both. No one is advocating violence, we are just spreading the word about who our anti enemies and their leaders are. You said it above "know the opposition." When she picks up and carries the anti's flag so zealously she makes herself a target for some healthy criticism, and so we poke a little fun to lighten things up along the way.

Besides the anti's routinely distribute their message by labeling, demonizing, and calling us and our orgs names. I hope you are not suggesting we shouldn't do the same because they might be thin-skinned. As always I will remain civil, but I am not worried about being overly polite to a bunch of rabid antis while they work to further erode our liberty and freedom.

Oh, and thank you for your story about saving us from a worse than could be imagined FSA 2013, but we are trying to focus on 2017.

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Stoveman said:

I'm not sure how this line helps your narrative. Some Dems sat down and worked something out and then the Mike and Mike show took over. You played nice and then still got shut out.


I haven't felt this talked down to since John Josselyn sent that haughty email about not holding a couple of NRA instructor and HPRB member's feet to the fire for siding with the MSP in denying our 2A rights.

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Patrick said:

What is it with you and sexualized imagery with my person and someone else's feet? That's twice you brought that little unwelcome image into things. Seriously, you're way into creepy territory there. Stop using me in your fantasies.

I said that gun controllers feel they are doing the right thing. But you cannot read, so I won't explain it all again.

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Patrick said:

For me to try to talk down to you would require me calling you names, or implying you are stupid. Did no such thing. In fact, I put significant effort into treating you as an equal. So if you feel on the low-end of the conversation that is your own personal projection of your position. I cannot fix the self-esteem issues of others, but I would suggest not turning to the Internet for help.

As for what happened, the story is pretty straight-forward: we got inside the loop of some Dems who were not supposed help us. They did. As a result, gun owners stayed out of jail. FSA sucks balls, but I feel some personal pride in having been one hand (of several) in stopping that little piece of hell. To be clear also: no way ti could not have happened without a few thousand people outside. The credit absolutely belongs with everyne who stood up and made their voices heard.

Last time: You don't get inside someone's perimeter by calling them names or calling them pure evil. But based on the social skills I see in a few folks here, it's obvious that nothing I can say will convince you of that.

I'll let it go now, and others can read the thread and make up their own minds when they take on some activism of their own. Thanks for the laughs.

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Patrick said:

For me to try to talk down to you would require me calling you names, or implying you are stupid. Did no such thing. In fact, I put significant effort into treating you as an equal. So if you feel on the low-end of the conversation that is your own personal projection of your position. I cannot fix the self-esteem issues of others, but I would suggest not turning to the Internet for help.

As for what happened, the story is pretty straight-forward: we got inside the loop of some Dems who were not supposed help us. They did. As a result, gun owners stayed out of jail. FSA sucks balls, but I feel some personal pride in having been one hand (of several) in stopping that little piece of hell. To be clear also: no way ti could not have happened without a few thousand people outside. The credit absolutely belongs with everyne who stood up and made their voices heard.

Last time: You don't get inside someone's perimeter by calling them names or calling them pure evil. But based on the social skills I see in a few folks here, it's obvious that nothing I can say will convince you of that.

I'll let it go now, and others can read the thread and make up their own minds when they take on some activism of their own. Thanks for the laughs.

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Mr H said:

The bold, above, is absolutely critical for folks to know and understand. I will personally vouch for the work you (and others) put in to save as much of our collective bacon as we did.

I still feel we were inches from killing the whole deal, but for the other side having to cheat several times to beat us. It was an exercise in how the system (especially in MD) operates.

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fidelity said:

Was a Connecticut style ban in the works back then?



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Mr H said:

The bold, above, is absolutely critical for folks to know and understand. I will personally vouch for the work you (and others) put in to save as much of our collective bacon as we did.

I still feel we were inches from killing the whole deal, but for the other side having to cheat several times to beat us. It was an exercise in how the system (especially in MD) operates.

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fidelity said:

Was a Connecticut style ban in the works back then?

I was new gun owner (bought my first firearm months before the legislative effort came together) and not plugged into what was happening (but trying as best to keep up via reading MDS, MSI announcements, etc).



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inkd said:

The original bill submitted was beyond horrible.
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