SBR and SRS ruling by MSP

swinokur · Mar 30, 2014

I have a couple of questions for our legal eagles.

1. The MD statute says I can legally possess an SBR if it is properly registered with the Feds. No mention of all the other crap MSP is putting out with the advisory. Am I not in compliance with th statute if I have a Form 4?

2. Once my SBR is under the purview of the NFA with a Form 4, how can MD regulate a Title II firearm?

3. Isn't this some kind of 10A or 14A violation? The NFA is under the purview of the Feds and MD now wants to regulate them?

How is this legal?

Answers please.

erwos · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
1. The MD statute says I can legally possess an SBR if it is properly registered with the Feds. No mention of all the other crap MSP is putting out with the advisory. Am I not in compliance with th statute if I have a Form 4?

You've got to be in compliance with all of the statutes. The bit of code you're referring to is basically phrased as "you may only possess if", not "you may always possess if".

2. Once my SBR is under the purview of the NFA with a Form 4, how can MD regulate a Title II forearm?

Because that's how federal law is written.

3. Isn't this some kind of 10A or 14A violation? The NFA is under the purview of the Feds and MD now wants to regulate them?

Not if the Feds willingly cede power to the states.

teratos · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
2. Once my SBR is under the purview of the NFA with a Form 4, how can MD regulate a Title II forearm?

Did you have to register your body as a dangerous weapon?

swinokur · Mar 30, 2014

I wish

Inigoes · Mar 30, 2014

teratos said:
Did you have to register your body as a dangerous weapon?

Under Obamacare, give it time...

Ab_Normal · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
I have a couple of questions for our legal eagles.

1. The MD statute says I can legally possess an SBR if it is properly registered with the Feds. No mention of all the other crap MSP is putting out with the advisory. Am I not in compliance with th statute if I have a Form 4?

2. Once my SBR is under the purview of the NFA with a Form 4, how can MD regulate a Title II firearm?

3. Isn't this some kind of 10A or 14A violation? The NFA is under the purview of the Feds and MD now wants to regulate them?

How is this legal?

Answers please.

It isn't legal: "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

teratos · Mar 30, 2014

Ab_Normal said:
It isn't legal: "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

You know that, and I know that. The people they had in mind when this was written don't want to believe that. Scalia's opinion in Heller didn't help:

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

This passage is often quoted by pro-gun control politicians as justification for what they are doing. It is still going to be a long battle. Let's pray none of the Conservative justices are replaced until there is a Conservative in the White House.

RwWilly · Mar 30, 2014

A bit off topic but....can I build a pre FSA2013 80% lower into a pistol? 10.5" barrel and pistol buffer tube.
The lower was finished in Aug. no numbers, never been a rifle. Starting to purchase parts. Am I done, or can this build continue?
Thanks

Ab_Normal · Mar 30, 2014

teratos said:
You know that, and I know that. The people they had in mind when this was written don't want to believe that. Scalia's opinion in Heller didn't help:

This passage is often quoted by pro-gun control politicians as justification for what they are doing. It is still going to be a long battle. Let's pray none of the Conservative justices are replaced until there is a Conservative in the White House.

His opinion is in direct conflict with the second amendment.

But let's take his longstanding prohibition stance for instance. If that was in fact a part of the second amendment then NO gun laws would be in place at all. Because remember that there was a longstanding lack of provisions before 1934 - about 150 years.

Almost anything they make up has history as well as the 'Supreme Law Of The Land' that does not support their opinions. It really is that simple.

ETA - they have a remedy if they don't want to follow the Constitution and that is a constitutional convention. But they know that would never pass so they just keep trying to go about it piecemeal in direct contradiction to the Constitution. Prohibition is a prime example of doing it the right way whether you agreed with it or not.

The biggest flaw that our Founding Fathers had was that they thought that most everyone would continue to be people of integrity - especially government officials. Boy were they wrong about that. :mad54:

teratos · Mar 30, 2014

RwWilly said:
A bit off topic but....can I build a pre FSA2013 80% lower into a pistol? 10.5" barrel and pistol buffer tube.
The lower was finished in Aug. no numbers, never been a rifle. Starting to purchase parts. Am I done, or can this build continue?
Thanks

Carry on....

swinokur · Mar 30, 2014

So how will it be determined what items are affected by this Advisory? Is there an effective date? ie, Form 4's prior to issuance are not affected?

Seems a stretch to ban things before the actual date of the advisory. MSP signed off on my Form 4 in September. Now it's not valid? Hope MSP clarifies some of this..

Geez.

Ab_Normal · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
So how will it be determined what items are affected by this Advisory? Is there an effective date? ie, Form 4's prior to issuance are not affected?

Seems a stretch to ban things before the actual date of the advisory. MSP signed off on my Form 4 in September. Now it's not valid? Hope MSP clarifies some of this..

Geez.

They are retroactively enforcing the PBJs so draw your own conclusion.

And then they will come out and trumpet how great the new law worked at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals while nothing good happens to actual crime rates.

teratos · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
So how will it be determined what items are affected by this Advisory? Is there an effective date? ie, Form 4's prior to issuance are not affected?

Seems a stretch to ban things before the actual date of the advisory. MSP signed off on my Form 4 in September. Now it's not valid? Hope MSP clarifies some of this..

Geez.

Here's my thinking. A pre 10/1 Form 4 is like a purchase order. With a PO, if you ordered an M1A from Springfield in August, and it comes in now or a few months down the road, you can still take possession of it. I could be dead wrong, but that's how I am treating it.

swinokur · Mar 30, 2014

I'll take your view. Hope MSP does too.

The sticky part is MSP signed off on 9-15. Obviously I won't have the Form 4 back for a while. Which date is most likely to be correct?

teratos · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
I'll take your view. Hope MSP does too.

Me too.

I think it's going to be tough to prosecute someone who went through the process of getting a tax stamp to legally make their rifle. Only one of my rifles be under 29", when all is said and done. That will be a 9mm AR.

swinokur · Mar 30, 2014

You used a Form 1. I did mine on a Form 4. How is the FFL gonna transfer my SBR since it's not on the roster? It does pass the OAL provision.

teratos · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
You used a Form 1. I did mine on a Form 4. How is the FFL gonna transfer my SBR since it's not on the roster? It does pass the OAL provision.

Oh. That may be a problem. If it is a huge issue, he can take it off the NFA registry, transfer it to you as a pre-10/1 purchase order (just the complete lower), give you the upper separately, and then you can do a Form 1. I guess that would be the only alternative. Form 1 should be treated as a PO. Hopefully.

swinokur · Mar 30, 2014

This entire debacle has MOM's and Dougie's Bravo Sierra written all over it IMO.

swinokur · Mar 30, 2014

teratos said:
Oh. That may be a problem. If it is a huge issue, he can take it off the NFA registry, transfer it to you as a pre-10/1 purchase order (just the complete lower), give you the upper separately, and then you can do a Form 1. I guess that would be the only alternative. Form 1 should be treated as a PO. Hopefully.

Yeah, and another year + wait again.

teratos · Mar 30, 2014

swinokur said:
Yeah, and another year + wait again.

I guess you'll know in the next few months. How long is your SBR?

SBR and SRS ruling by MSP

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