I don't necessarily see how that follows. My understanding is that the MSP position is that they want the responsible individual in the trust to do the paperwork.
No more SBRs
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how will ATF issue a stamp registering to a trust and MSP register it to an individual? 77R is registration and the trust won't be listed any where in MSP database.
How does that matter? It's registered to someone in the trust. There's no law anywhere that says these two things must match up. Registration does not necessarily connote a total ownership story.
Plus, if it came down to brass tacks, the MSP would need to change. Their approach is not compatible with current trust law.
do you think MSP cares? everyone on the trust better have a HQL/exemption, too.
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
I think its not good.
How has the ATF previously even able to register Form 1 SBRs to a trust that have been registered to an individual on a 77r prior to 10/1?
Same way they'll handle communal property, I imagine... which is to only treat the person it's registered to as the owner. You are assuming the feds and the MSP must act in lock step, which is clearly not true.
BC when you form 1 something, you are manufacturing a new gun. the previous 77r is invalid at that point.
A little more complicated than that, but basically true. Note that you're not required to fill out a 77r on a home build, though.
Must only apply to form 4s? I asked a similar question on the last page.
so far. i see a MSP bulletin in the near future stating that form 1 guns must be "voluntarily" registered on a 77R within X amount of time from receiving a stamp.
Won't have force of law.
Kingjamez
Gun Builder
I still argue that a Form 1 of an existing firearm is MAKING a SBR not Manufacturing. A Form 1 for a new gun you build from scratch would be manufacturing.
-Jim
-Jim
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
This effects Form 4's for SBR's and SBS's because a dealer handles those. The SBR or SBS will have to be on the Handgun Roster, have a Fired Shell Casing (For NEW Only), and have or the customer supplies an Integrated/Approved Lock, AND it is subject to the MSP77r/7 Day Wait/H.Q.L./1 Per 30 Day (Unless a D.C.).
Using a Trust on SBR/SBS Form 4's from here out I don't think will be ok anymore. If there is an approved Form 4's and the Trustee does a 77r on a NFA Approved Form 4 the would mean the "Trust" never took possession of the NFA device, an individual did. This isn't ok. Not at all.
Form 1 on a Trust is ok because the person is making the gun and its not being transferred or sold. Thus the 77r, H.Q.L., Lock, and Roster does not apply in that case. One must still observe copycat and oal requirements.
Using a Trust on SBR/SBS Form 4's from here out I don't think will be ok anymore. If there is an approved Form 4's and the Trustee does a 77r on a NFA Approved Form 4 the would mean the "Trust" never took possession of the NFA device, an individual did. This isn't ok. Not at all.
Form 1 on a Trust is ok because the person is making the gun and its not being transferred or sold. Thus the 77r, H.Q.L., Lock, and Roster does not apply in that case. One must still observe copycat and oal requirements.
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
I agree.
This would tend to be my understanding as well. Now to accept the challenge of finding a 10.3 inch 5.56 HBAR....
I hope not... But I see that too. As someone else mentioned, would it carry the force of the law?
From what I understand it can be considered an SBR and a Handgun.
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
This would tend to be my understanding as well. Now to accept the challenge of finding a 10.3 inch 5.56 HBAR....
I hope not... But I see that too. As someone else mentioned, would it carry the force of the law?
I would just buy a 16" carbine HBAR and form 1 it. ONce the Form 1 is approved whack the barrel and if needed open the gas port. The OAL will be over 29" and it will only have 1 "evil" feature. SO its still an HBAR, not a copycat and not a banned ALG because its an HBAR
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
Agreed. Anything with a barrel shorter than 16" is now subject to all the stuff handguns are subject ot in addition to NFA B.S.
Then you have to make sure its not a banned copycat.
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