ND While Loading Shotgun

Art3 · Aug 24, 2016

davsco said:
competitions are won and lost in fractions of seconds. for the super rare occasion of something like this happening, the time cost isn't worth it. as noted earlier, with muzzle pointed downrange, in the rare instance this does happen, everyone is safe.

frankly with the safety so close to the trigger, it's probably a higher chance of accidentally hitting the trigger while safeing on/off than with a stray shell.

I'm with you on that one. A Mossberg receiver safety may not be bad, but too much fiddling around near the trigger...that could gett be worrisome :ohnoes:

The best safety to use is the one between the ears.

billymx48 · Aug 24, 2016

Didn't we all learn that safeties are mechanical devices that can fail. ( and will fail at the most inopportune time). I agree that safety is the number one thing but In competition how many times would you have to switch the safety on and off and training or not I think it would become a issue of time and cause possible ADs as well. That in mind I believe the shooter did a great job of handling the situation. Hands down a class act.

swinokur · Aug 24, 2016

Threeband said:
Still requires a FB account.

i watched the video and I don't have a FB account

pbharvey · Aug 24, 2016

I'm not a three gun guy but I'm curious to know the trigger pull on your shotgun. I'm guessing competition shooters lighten the trigger some even on shotguns? Maybe it's the slow motion video throwing me off but it doesn't seem like that loose shell would have enough energy on impact to "pull" the trigger. Makes me wonder about the possibility of this happening in a goose blind when everything gets hot and heavy.

BenL · Aug 24, 2016

jimbobborg said:
Was that Jerry M? Cuz it sounds like something he'd do.

That's the same thing I was thinking.

BenL · Aug 24, 2016

vgplayer said:
It doesn't have to be a separate task that needs to be completed before continuing just part of the process. I think it can trained to be automatic that there is no time lost.

By the nature of doing something, time is spent doing that thing. Yes, it's only a fraction of a second, but as it's been pointed out, these matches are won and lost by fractions of a second. I shot a match last weekend and came in 4th; I beat 5th place by 49/100 of a second (172.37 vs. 172.86.)

tkd4life · Aug 24, 2016

billymx48 said:
Didn't we all learn that safeties are mechanical devices that can fail. ( and will fail at the most inopportune time). I agree that safety is the number one thing but In competition how many times would you have to switch the safety on and off and training or not I think it would become a issue of time and cause possible ADs as well. That in mind I believe the shooter did a great job of handling the situation. Hands down a class act.

I once had an AD with a blank while in a training event. We came out of the field and went back to our tents to get MRE's for lunch to go back out into the field. I leaned my M4 up against my cot and went to grab my MRE. The m4 slid off the cot and when it slammed on the floor it discharged. My squad leader confirmed that the safety was on before I even touched the rifle. Thank goodness it was just a blank, but ever since I don't trust safeties.

Plus, I must have over 20+ different safety designs requiring different actions to engage or disengage. I'm not going to be competition fast on all of them. However, all of them have muzzles, all of them have chambers, and all of them have triggers. As long as I keep the chamber clear until I'm ready to fire, the muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times, and my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to fire, the mechanical safety is irrelevant. You have to break at least 2 of the 3 above rules in order to accidentally shoot someone.

vgplayer · Aug 24, 2016

BenL said:
By the nature of doing something, time is spent doing that thing. Yes, it's only a fraction of a second, but as it's been pointed out, these matches are won and lost by fractions of a second. I shot a match last weekend and came in 4th; I beat 5th place by 49/100 of a second (172.37 vs. 172.86.)

Lets take drawing a 1911 from a holster. I imagine that would mean round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on. Shooter draws and once clear of the holster but still not on target but getting onto target disengage the safety. During the time from getting out of the holster to on target ready to fire could be filled with doing nothing or doing something like disengage a safety. Its going to take the same amount of time to get the shot off.

davsco · Aug 24, 2016

vgplayer said:
Lets take drawing a 1911 from a holster. I imagine that would mean round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on. Shooter draws and once clear of the holster but still not on target but getting onto target disengage the safety. During the time from getting out of the holster to on target ready to fire could be filled with doing nothing or doing something like disengage a safety. Its going to take the same amount of time to get the shot off.

the juice ain't worth the squeeze. how about you tell us your splits with and without safe'ing the shotgun during reloads. i guarantee they're not the same. no one safe's a 1911 either during reloads despite it being easier than a shotgun safety. again, messing around, around the trigger group at every reload is going to cause more AD's than the 1 in a million shell in the trigger guard will.

kalister1 · Aug 24, 2016

If you are going to Safe the firearm during reloads.. When else would you Safe it?
When not actively engaging targets you are REQUIRED to remove your finger from the trigger guard, would you Safe the firearm then too? Between shots can be 1 step or a 10 yard dash, would you safe while moving? Targets can be engaged while moving.
During the course of fire you may have 15 or more instances where you COULD Safe the firearm.

platoonDaddy · Aug 24, 2016

pbharvey said:
I'm not a three gun guy but I'm curious to know the trigger pull on your shotgun. I'm guessing competition shooters lighten the trigger some even on shotguns? Maybe it's the slow motion video throwing me off but it doesn't seem like that loose shell would have enough energy on impact to "pull" the trigger. Makes me wonder about the possibility of this happening in a goose blind when everything gets hot and heavy.

From the height that the shell fell, I am having problems grasping how that would impact the trigger.

Is there a minimum trigger weight requirement for firearms in three gun?

Would love to know the trigger modifications.

Just goes to show one the importance of muzzle discipline.

alucard0822 · Aug 24, 2016

engaging the safety while reloading is kinda stupid, running a shotgun isn't like running a rifle, you load as much as you shoot, and even if it doesn't add "time" it adds complexity. When practicing for defense, you usually load weak hand singles with the gun ready to go pointed at the threat, the purpose is to practically eliminate "down time", so during the substantial time a reload takes, you can still fire. With 3 gun "gaming", it would add time, and as Davsco said, the chances of bumping the trigger with a finger or thumb while working the safety and flipping the gun is probably higher than hitting it with a dropped shell. If you get into 3gun you will see both how it wouldn't be necessary, and how many safety rules are in place to prevent the guaranteed minor accidents from turning into major ones.

1time · Aug 24, 2016

platoonDaddy said:
From the height that the shell fell, I am having problems grasping how that would impact the trigger.

Is there a minimum trigger weight requirement for firearms in three gun?

Would love to know the trigger modifications.

Just goes to show one the importance of muzzle discipline.

I'm not sure if George did trigger work but I have the same shotgun with a stock trigger. I was able to get the trigger to go off from dropping a shell from three inches. It is hard to drop it just right to hit the trigger though.

vgplayer · Aug 24, 2016

My example was to point out that it is possible to perform 2 tasks without loss of time. I'm not saying safety between targets or shots or for every type of reload. Breaking down the motions I think it is possible to combine safetying without slowing you down. It will require practice.

vgplayer · Aug 24, 2016

I'm also not condemning George.

platoonDaddy · Aug 25, 2016

1time said:
I'm not sure if George did trigger work but I have the same shotgun with a stock trigger. I was able to get the trigger to go off from dropping a shell from three inches. It is hard to drop it just right to hit the trigger though.

It has been pointed out to me that the Facebook comments states "Stock trigger. My hand and fingers are behind the trigger guard."

Jackson923 · Aug 28, 2016

vgplayer said:
It doesn't have to be a separate task that needs to be completed before continuing just part of the process. I think it can trained to be automatic that there is no time lost.

Good luck with that, please let me know how it turns out for you on a shot timer.

Jackson923 · Aug 28, 2016

vgplayer said:
Lets take drawing a 1911 from a holster. I imagine that would mean round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on. Shooter draws and once clear of the holster but still not on target but getting onto target disengage the safety. During the time from getting out of the holster to on target ready to fire could be filled with doing nothing or doing something like disengage a safety. Its going to take the same amount of time to get the shot off.

You're comparing apples and oranges here. I have a 2011 and yes when holstered with a mag inserted and a round chamber my pistol has the safety engaged prior to my draw. When I drop a mag and insert another I do not engage the safety nor do I or anyone else engage the safety on our shotguns when reloading. Watch the video below and you'll see and have a better understanding.

Jackson923 · Aug 28, 2016

No trigger modifications have been made to this Browning A5 Stalker model it is a stock trigger. Here is the video on slow motion .125x speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElVTyCbJsA0

SuperMag · Sep 3, 2016

I'm not going to armchair quarterback this ND.

From the vid, looked like it was a mechanical failure.

What this does do is remind us all to use dummy ammo when doing function checks at home. This could've been bad. Good on your cousin for maintaining excellent muzzle discipline. :party29:

ND While Loading Shotgun

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Eqinsu Ocha

Member

In a State of Bliss

Habitual Testifier

John Galt Speaking.

John Galt Speaking.

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

R.I.P.

Ultimate Member

For great Justice

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Hell Yeah!

Hell Yeah!

Hell Yeah!

Citizen--not "Subject"

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics