AR15 vs bolt action rifle for distance 600+

GolfR · Dec 9, 2016

I contemplated the same question a while back and ended up buying an AR10. I agree with an earlier poster that mentioned that there is more to master shooting an AR10 than a bolt gun. From a sled the AR10 is dead on and shoots very good groups at 200 yards that are comparable to very good bolt guns. In bench shooting, I can't do nearly as well with the AR10 as I can with a bolt gun. I went with the AR because I thought it would be more fun...and it is.

So in the end, the big question is what are you going to use it for. I'm seriously considering picking up a Savage 10BA Stealth in 308 to compliment the AR10. Honestly, the biggest problem is not the cost of the guns, it's the cost of putting good optics on them!

Major03 · Dec 9, 2016

Generally speaking a bolt gun is cheaper and easier to accurize. Less moving parts. That said, if you're willing to spend some money and get some quality components put together by someone who knows what they're doing, a good AR will likely outshoot all but the very best shooters.

I like bolt guns. But it's really just personal preference.

Major03 · Dec 9, 2016

If you're on a budget, for distance shooting (600 yds plus) you'd probably be better off spending less money on the rifle and go with a bolt action and then spend the rest of the money on a decent scope.

The biggest mistake most people make is to blow the whole budget on the rifle and get a cheap $300 Chinese scope. You get what you pay for really is applicable to optics.

lazarus · Dec 9, 2016

Major03 said:
Generally speaking a bolt gun is cheaper and easier to accurize. Less moving parts. That said, if you're willing to spend some money and get some quality components put together by someone who knows what they're doing, a good AR will likely outshoot all but the very best shooters.

I like bolt guns. But it's really just personal preference.

Well a 0MOA rifle still is more accurate overall in the hands of a terrible marksman than a 3MOA rifle in the hands of a terrible marksman.

That said, you generally want to put the most money and effort in to which part is the worse off. Speaking personally, my .308 Sako is a sub MOA rifle with gold medal match...but my marksmanship is crappy enough that even with gold medal match I am lucky to get 1.5" groups. I've done it enough times to be quite confident it is a sub MOA rifle. My wife's uncle who sold it to me can do 1" groups or smaller all day long.

I am happy enough with "cheap" FMJ in it, because it'll shoot about 2MOA which is barely worse than my marksmanship on a bench allows. At least the right cheap FMJ. PMC bronze is about 3.5MOA...PPU SP and FMJ is about 2MOA. As stated I can usually hit 1.5MOA with gold medal match. Occasionally I can shoot just under 1MOA 3 shot groups with it.

TheGunnyRet · Dec 9, 2016

M16 with 20" barrel you would be hard pressed to go over 500 yds...in 556.

AR10/LR308 .308, would be a better choice.

6.5 Grendel would be a good choice in AR15 platform, though never shot the Grendel but its all the rage to reach out too 1k in a quality platform. FWIH...

DC-W · Dec 9, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/user/Highjak86/videos
This guy has a few vids of AR15s being pushed out between 800 to even 1k yrds.

Jerry M · Dec 9, 2016

Some of you guys should go to Quantico when they are having a service rifle match an look at the x counts on the USMC and Army teams. It may change your mind about 5.56 mm.

Sirex · Dec 9, 2016

Buff7mm said:
Marlin model 60 all day long, I've been shooting it out past 1200 yards daily.

I am going to call BS on this. Everyone knows the Marlin is a 1000yd and below gun. Past 1000yds, the bullet is prone to drift.

DaemonAssassin · Dec 9, 2016

Sirex said:
I am going to call BS on this. Everyone knows the Marlin is a 1000yd and below gun. Past 1000yds, the bullet is prone to drift.

I call BS on this. I've shot one to 6k and repeatedly hit the bullseye. The fact that the bullseye is as big as the Empire State Building is a minor detail...

Pinecone · Dec 10, 2016

Going subsonic is only an issue with certain bullets. The Sierra match King .308 168 grain is one. The SMK 175 grain is fine when it drops subsonic.

Bullet drop is not a big deal, you get your dope, and you dial in the correct. BTW, the difference at 1000 yards between an .308 SMK 175 grain and a .223 SMK 77 grain is 2.2 mils (11.7 versus 13.9)

Again, the CMP high power guys do it all the time. The slow fire prone is at least 600 yards, and 1000 yards if they have a range supports it.

BUFF7MM · Dec 10, 2016

Sirex said:
I am going to call BS on this. Everyone knows the Marlin is a 1000yd and below gun. Past 1000yds, the bullet is prone to drift.

Patience, you'll get there.

DaemonAssassin said:
I call BS on this. I've shot one to 6k and repeatedly hit the bullseye. The fact that the bullseye is as big as the Empire State Building is a minor detail...

You must also be using the 80MOA bases with the 4x15DOA BDC Magnum Force Recon scope also.

DaemonAssassin · Dec 10, 2016

Buff7mm said:
Patience, you'll get there.

You must also be using the 80MOA bases with thr 4x15DOA BDC Magnum Force Recon scope also.

DZ · Dec 10, 2016

For long range precision shooting, you will likely find that a purpose built bolt action will be easier to learn on. They are stiffer and a little more forgiving than an AR.

That said, an AR, even in 5.56, can be pushed to perform at distance much more effectively than one would expect. When I swap out my Aimpoint for my Mk6 1-6, torso sized targets can be drilled with regularity out to 800yd with M193. But that isn't what I would define as precision shooting.

Try out a few different options before buying. If you are really interested in buying the right gun the first time, take a class first, then buy. Ed has loaners...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Pinecone · Dec 11, 2016

lazarus said:
Well a 0MOA rifle still is more accurate overall in the hands of a terrible marksman than a 3MOA rifle in the hands of a terrible marksman.

That said, you generally want to put the most money and effort in to which part is the worse off. Speaking personally, my .308 Sako is a sub MOA rifle with gold medal match...but my marksmanship is crappy enough that even with gold medal match I am lucky to get 1.5" groups. I've done it enough times to be quite confident it is a sub MOA rifle. My wife's uncle who sold it to me can do 1" groups or smaller all day long.

I am happy enough with "cheap" FMJ in it, because it'll shoot about 2MOA which is barely worse than my marksmanship on a bench allows. At least the right cheap FMJ. PMC bronze is about 3.5MOA...PPU SP and FMJ is about 2MOA. As stated I can usually hit 1.5MOA with gold medal match. Occasionally I can shoot just under 1MOA 3 shot groups with it.

Sort of.

A 1 MOA gun with a 1 MOA shooter, shoots to 20" at 1000 yards, well enough to hit a 24" square plate every shot (barring screwed up wind calls).

A 3 MOA gun with a 1 MOA shooter, shoots to 40" at 1000 yards, so hits on the 24" plate are about 50% (8.7 square foot group, 4 square foot target).

A 1 MOA gun with 10 MOA shooter, shoots 110" at 1000 yards, making hits on a 24" plate to be close to pure luck (1 in 65 shots, 264 square foot group).

Pinecone · Dec 11, 2016

TheGunnyRet said:
M16 with 20" barrel you would be hard pressed to go over 500 yds...in 556.

AR10/LR308 .308, would be a better choice.

6.5 Grendel would be a good choice in AR15 platform, though never shot the Grendel but its all the rage to reach out too 1k in a quality platform. FWIH...

Hmm, what does the Marine Corp Rifle Team shoot?

Pinecone · Dec 11, 2016

Sirex said:
I am going to call BS on this. Everyone knows the Marlin is a 1000yd and below gun. Past 1000yds, the bullet is prone to drift.

He didn't say he HIT anything. :lol2:

hi3cho · Dec 13, 2016

I have recently been looking into longer range shooting and the Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 seems to be a great mix of the AR platform and bolt action. They are hard to find in stock but supposed to be good out to I believe 1600 yards out of the box with a good scope and I haven't really read a bad thing about them. As many have said you will have to spend some good money on the glass as well.

jimbobborg · Dec 13, 2016

Jerry M said:
Some of you guys should go to Quantico when they are having a service rifle match an look at the x counts on the USMC and Army teams. It may change your mind about 5.56 mm.

Sadly, you will need to submit to a background check before doing this :sad20:

Pinecone · Dec 17, 2016

hi3cho said:
I have recently been looking into longer range shooting and the Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 seems to be a great mix of the AR platform and bolt action. They are hard to find in stock but supposed to be good out to I believe 1600 yards out of the box with a good scope and I haven't really read a bad thing about them. As many have said you will have to spend some good money on the glass as well.

You are not going to be much precision shooting to 1600 with .308 in ANY rifle.

But, IMO, .308 teaches you more, faster, than the hot cartridges

lkenefic · Dec 17, 2016

I built my precision rifle on a Remington 700 HV short action in 308. I have it set up as a single shot, glassed and pillar bedded into a McGee prone stock. The stock is the rough equivalent of an Anschutz 1911 prone stock. Currently, I have a Leupold M8 12x scope on it for load development. I also have a Mid Tompkins front sight with a spirit level on it, and an REG rear sight with a Gehman aperture. This set up shoots into 0.5MOA off a bench if I do my part on the Timney trigger . I am NOT a 0.5 minute shooter! I just wanted every advantage I could have when I stepped to the line. I had the rifle purpose built for 500 yd prone comps at Phoenix Rod and Gun. I have no doubts it would perform at Palma matches too...

AR15 vs bolt action rifle for distance 600+

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