Do we know what MSP wil do to the "365"

Knowing that MSI's focus is on Annapolis, has anyone heard what MSP might do with the "post decison pre stay" APPS?

For those that don't know, the 365 refers to the first batch of pre stay apps MSP had approved. I know there are many more.

My guess, check for G&S. If not, deny.

hacktracker said:

My guess, check for G&S. If not, deny.

Click to expand...

Well all or most of them were submitted without G & S after Judge Legg's ruling. I agree they will probably be coming back.

kiss the money goodbye

If mine comes back I'm planning on squeezing every drop out of it that I can.

they will be all listed on the front page of B' Sun with addresses ... fo shua ....

Buff7mm said:

If mine comes back I'm planning on squeezing every drop out of it that I can.

Click to expand...

Meaning?

Merlin said:

Meaning?

Click to expand...

Just what it says, if it comes back they will get tired of seeing me.

Buff7mm said:

Just what it says, if it comes back they will get tired of seeing me.

Click to expand...

And your assuming if they get tired of seeing you they will give you a ccw?

Keep in mind that each and every time they see you they are getting paid, your not. Every time they see you, your taking time off of work, they are not.

Even if you get an attorney (that will be a COMPLETE waist of money unless you really have a G&S and the MSP just did not want to admit to it) it will be costing you money, not them.

I think it is more likely they can out last you. Mr Woodard has a VERY high profile attorney, how is it working out for him so far? And he had a G&S at one time according to the MSP.

I Like your spirit, but look at reality. If you go through the appeals board and do not have a G&S reason, Just saying you want a ccw just because you think it's right, will not be enough. Now if your a business owner that has never been convicted and they turned you down for no good reason, then you have a case to bring to the appeals process.

But lacking that, well, do I have to say it?

Merlin said:

Now if your a business owner that has never been convicted and they turned you down for no good reason, then you have a case to bring to the appeals process.

Click to expand...

It's getting a little old reading this over and over again (from you and others here). Is this now the ONLY way to get a permit?

And, follow up, is ANY business owner owner all but an automatic approval at this point somehow? Because, that's not the way it used to be.

PJDiesel said:

It's getting a little old reading this over and over again (from you and others here). Is this now the ONLY way to get a permit?

And, follow up, is ANY business owner owner all but an automatic approval at this point somehow? Because, that's not the way it used to be.

Click to expand...

You know the answer to your own question.

PJDiesel said:

It's getting a little old reading this over and over again (from you and others here). Is this now the ONLY way to get a permit?

And, follow up, is ANY business owner owner all but an automatic approval at this point somehow? Because, that's not the way it used to be.

Click to expand...

Also how it use to be and how it is not is very much the same. What I mean is, when talking CCW's there is more bull crap wives tails of people just spreading what are nothing more then roomers of how they think it is.

So tell me, how do you think it was back in the day?

Merlin said:

Also how it use to be and how it is not is very much the same. What I mean is, when talking CCW's there is more bull crap wives tails of people just spreading what are nothing more then roomers of how they think it is.

So tell me, how do you think it was back in the day?

Click to expand...

Heres the disconnect, it's getting to be a super groovy sect of the "haves" and the "have nots" here.

Lots of folks with permits (a few with laughable "business" reasons) make it a point to pop into the CCW threads and comment on how they knew Legg would be overturned and aren't surprised in the least, it's getting to the point that it (seems to me) that you guys think anyone who's not a business owner (apparently including a guy who does mobile music lessons included) shouldn't even apply.

If you should be able to carry based on some of the outlandishly ridiculous reasons posted here recently, 95% of us should also be approved solely based on the value of the CARS we drive.

So, in short, the way (I believe) it "used" to be was that people got arbitrarily denied, even though they are business owners and carry cash. I am one of them, got denied back in about 2003. Looks like I will be getting denied again here soon.

I shouldn't have to lay out (to the State) every detail of my business and person life in order to legally protect myself and my property (outside the home). Sending them in stacks of personal financial information is degrading and unnecessary. In some cases, (like mine) it STILL doesn't mean you will be approved. When the process is 100% arbitrary, some guys are going to get fvcked over, simple as that.

Is someone in here really telling someone not to fight! Sure they have us right now but not fighting is what they want. If we dont fight where do we stand. Do you feel the same about whats going on in Annapolis? Beside with the denials being handed out it may work in our favor because MD cant say that 90 some % of permits get issued anymore. I have a feeling that number is going plummet and when the case goes to the SCOTUS they will not have that argument anymore.

PJDiesel said:

Heres the disconnect, it's getting to be a super groovy sect of the "haves" and the "have nots" here.

Lots of folks with permits (a few with laughable "business" reasons) make it a point to pop into the CCW threads and comment on how they knew Legg would be overturned and aren't surprised in the least, it's getting to the point that it (seems to me) that you guys think anyone who's not a business owner (apparently including a guy who does mobile music lessons included) shouldn't even apply.

If you should be able to carry based on some of the outlandishly ridiculous reasons posted here recently, 95% of us should also be approved solely based on the value of the CARS we drive.

Click to expand...

I never said someone that has a business going around teaching music lessons should never apply. I think they should apply and in Maryland someone with a business like that will get their CCW. And I would be willing to bet the mobile music lessen person often gets paid in cash.

But don't kill the messenger just because you do not like MD law. It's MD that has G&S, not members of this site. If you have a business in Maryland, no matter how small, and you want a ccw, you should apply. If you collect and sell baseball cards for a Hobie, it's not considered a business and applying will be a waist of money.

So I agree with people applying in order to see what is determined to be "G&S" because all we have are some past experiences and text from the MSP website regarding what constitutes as examples of G&S. If we want to eliminate the MSP having the ability of saying they have a high % of applications, we need to apply with what we feel as though is G&S to get their number down as well as to see what is acceptable and then circulate that info in a private forum or through PMs. Currently I am in the process of having my wife fill out the application for her permit. She is a part time realtor who is also 50% disabled in her arms due to an accident a few years ago. Showing homes to strangers in a closed environment also being partially disabled may constitute as G&S to the MSP. Will it, I have not clue but if the only negative is we are out 75 bucks then we shall see.

If you were in the group of applicants who applied in the period between the initial decision and Judge Legg's stay, we are working to get information on what will happen to your permit application. We will keep you up to date as we know more.

Click to expand...

From MSI
http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=f9a3fb0d5de76b58560e66d8e&id=eaf9f9e9cc

Merlin said:

I never said someone that has a business going around teaching music lessons should never apply. I think they should apply and in Maryland someone with a business like that will get their CCW. And I would be willing to bet the mobile music lessen person often gets paid in cash.
But don't kill the messenger just because you do not like MD law. It's MD that has G&S, not members of this site. If you have a business in Maryland, no matter how small, and you want a ccw, you should apply. If you collect and sell baseball cards for a Hobie, it's not considered a business and applying will be a waist of money.

Click to expand...

You missed my point (almost entirely). I was poking a little healthy fun at the person who WAS approved for that reason. I will be in Galena, MD next Saturday (the 6th) at an auction with around $4K cash in my pocket. I AM a business owner, but buying and selling equipment at auctions is not my "business", it's solely for fun. However, when I applied (last March) I supplied $24K in cash deposits and withdraws over 15 months with my application (and a copy of my FFL03, MD collectors license, copy of the charter for my Maryland corporation and a copy of my license from MD DLLR.

(never heard a word after my interview in July). I was afraid to call and inquire because of all all the stories of guys hearing grief for calling about status. Since I was in the group (timeframe wise) of pre-stay guys, I patiently waited.

Point is, where does it say on the application that if you are a business carrying cash you will be viewed differently than an individual who chooses to carry a few grand around in cash? It doesn't, and I fail to see this as anything other than yet another old wives tale.

If you were in the group of applicants who applied in the period between the initial decision and Judge Legg's stay, we are working to get information on what will happen to your permit application. We will keep you up to date as we know more.

Click to expand...

Thank you. This is what I wanted to know. I assumed MSI was working on it and of course you were !

PJDiesel said:

So, in short, the way (I believe) it "used" to be was that people got arbitrarily denied, even though they are business owners and carry cash. I am one of them, got denied back in about 2003. Looks like I will be getting denied again here soon.

I shouldn't have to lay out (to the State) every detail of my business and person life in order to legally protect myself and my property (outside the home). Sending them in stacks of personal financial information is degrading and unnecessary. In some cases, (like mine) it STILL doesn't mean you will be approved. When the process is 100% arbitrary, some guys are going to get fvcked over, simple as that.

Click to expand...

I agree and disagree.

I disagree that (at one time) it was harder to get a CCW. i'm 55 and when I was a kid, every business owner I knew, to incluid my step dad had a permit. If anything, back in the day the :carry concealed' was not as big of deal as it is now because I would see the guns on the belts of the business owners I can in contact with. So if anything it is more stricked now then is was years ago.


But I agree 100% that people should not be required to send the MSP details of their business and person life in order to legally protect themselves and their property. But that's the state we live in and they have always been all about placing road blocks in your way that they know many will not want to jump over.

MD knows that with every roadblock they place in front of residents, there will be a hand full that will not bother to deal with them. They know that you feel that way and that's the very reason why they made the laws the way they did. No one wants to give out personal info. The people that do give it out to get their ccw do not like the idea they have to give it out. But I guess the ccw is worth it for them so they give out the info. Others will not want a ccw so bad to bother.

Just like the 3 references they require. why should I have to inform 3 or more people that I want a ccw to protect myself? I did not like that I did, but I went ahead and did it anyway because I wanted my ccw. But the state knows that many will not want to bother doing this. wanting a ccw is a privet thing to many people and they will not bother applying if the only way they can get a ccw is to let 3 or more people in their life know what they are doing.

If MD had their way none of us would own guns, never mind have ccw. But they know they just cant take our guns away 100%. So they instead use all of these road block that many will not want to bother with. The 7 day wait is another one. I would be willing to bet that there are people out there that will not bother buying a gun just because they do not want to bother going through the paperwork and the 7+ day wait. So in the states eyes that is just that many more people that will not bother to own a gun.

If you can believe the stats there are only around 4500 - 5000 ccw's issued in MD. That is a drop in the bucket compared to how many people that could be approved. But they do not want to bother to apply just through the hoops MD places in their way that were placed in their way by design to do just that. Make people not want to bother.