AR won't chamber first round

outrider58 · Feb 10, 2016

drive_accord_ingly said:
WRONG! The lot of ya!

The sole purpose that they Putin the forward assist was to poke you in the gut or your back and make your life miserable!

A south paw?

Tactics · Feb 10, 2016

clandestine said:
100% Wrong The Forward Assist is not on the AR because its unreliable. Its there because the standard AR does not have a reciprocating Charging Handle. The Forward Assist not only helps seal the up firearm, but it has a secondary purpose. The Forward Assist is necessary if you have to force the bolt closed. Here are the possibilities where a Forward Assist is necessary: -To get the bolt into battery on a severely contaminated or under lubricated AR -The ammo is fouled or dented -The Throat is short (Increases Chamber Pressure) which can lead to a popped primer -Silencer use (Increases Chamber Pressure) which can lead to a popped primer -A Bolt Lug breaks If the Bolt Group gets stuck out of battery you wont be able to remove the Upper Receiver from the Lower Receiver to correct a problem. Popped Primers and broken parts will often find their way into the Gas Key area or in the Fire Control Group area of the Rifle, locking the action up HARD. An AK47 or M14 will lock up hard if something gets where it shouldnt as well. On those firearms you smack the Charging Handle with your boot, a corner, a 2x4, or whatever you have handy to clear it. On the AR you use the Forward Assist and Charging Handle. The multitudes of commercial ammo options that civilians have access to, increase the likelihood of an ammo or primer problem rearing its head. With a U.S. Govt Issued M16 you get either a Colt or FN as the variables. In the civilian world you have hundreds of manufacturers and a thousand choices with ammo which means "murphy" is more likely to show up. When you add a sound suppressor or booster the odds multiply because chamber pressures increase. An adjustable Gas Block helps minimize the variables. Bad headspace can also cause a primer to pop but a short throat or ammo being the cause it more likely. The Forward Assist is like a spare tire, seatbelt, or a medic kit. You hope to never need it, but are thankful to have it if needed.

Great post Chad. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Pinecone · Feb 10, 2016

vandrv said:
I guess I am one of those people. I actually enjoy cleaning my guns. I somehow find it relaxing, or maybe it's just the smell of the Hoppes.

You are doing more damage by over cleaning than shooting it.

vandrv · Feb 10, 2016

Pinecone said:
You are doing more damage by over cleaning than shooting it.

I doubt that I actually over clean them. I don't run them through the washing machine or anything like that.

But when I do clean them, i just sort enjoy doing it.

Erno86 · Feb 10, 2016

clandestine said:
100% Wrong

The Forward Assist is not on the AR because it’s unreliable. It’s there because the standard AR does not have a reciprocating Charging Handle.

The Forward Assist not only helps seal the up firearm, but it has a secondary purpose. The Forward Assist is necessary if you have to force the bolt closed.

I did not say that the Forward Assist was "unreliable"....I said that using the FA for putting the bolt fully into battery from a press check is unadvisable, because you have to relinquish control {for a right hander} of the firearm. It's better to use the charging handle to send the bolt fully into battery from a press check or if the bolt didn't go fully into battery; because of it being fouled.

Even left handers will find it's more difficult to use the FA than the charging handle.

My major point...that I'm trying to get across: It's better to use the charging handle --- for a right hander --- with a press check and bringing the bolt fully into battery, because if you're performing this operation when some bad guys appear --- you still have full control of the AR with your firing hand --- Whether it's safety manipulation or just pulling the trigger, with the firing hand still wrapped around the pistol grip, and being able to mount the gun to your shoulder in a reasonable amount of time.

Using the forward assist, when time is critical, is an unwise move, in which a extra move is required {moving the FA}, that will cost precious seconds in a critical situation.

Erno86 · Feb 10, 2016

kalister1 said:
Bolded: That was because men were dying because they could not chamber a round. The original Powder used by Uncle Sam was not the right stuff, chambers were not chromed and cleaning kits were not issued. So when the SHTF how do you use the charging handle to chamber a round?

I believe that our soldiers in the Vietnam War, who could not chamber a round, was because the spent shell casing was stuck in the chamber.

MKR03 · Feb 10, 2016

Erno86 said:
I did not say that the Forward Assist was "unreliable"....I said that using the FA for putting the bolt fully into battery from a press check is unadvisable, because you have to relinquish control {for a right hander} of the firearm. It's better to use the charging handle to send the bolt fully into battery from a press check or if the bolt didn't go fully into battery; because of it being fouled.

Even left handers will find it's more difficult to use the FA than the charging handle.

My major point...that I'm trying to get across: It's better to use the charging handle --- for a right hander --- with a press check and bringing the bolt fully into battery, because if you're performing this operation when some bad guys appear --- you still have full control of the AR with your firing hand --- Whether it's safety manipulation or just pulling the trigger, with the firing hand still wrapped around the pistol grip, and being able to mount the gun to your shoulder in a reasonable amount of time.

Using the forward assist, when time is critical, is an unwise move, in which a extra move is required {moving the FA}, that will cost precious seconds in a critical situation.

Huh? How do you use the charging handle to put the bolt into battery? If you perform a press check by slightly pulling back on the CH until you see brass, then release the CH and the bolt doesn't go back into battery, how can you use the CH to seat the bolt? Press harder on the CH? It doesn't work that way. The CH pulls the BCG to the rear and the energy from the buffer spring sends it forward. The CH cannot push the BCG forward. In that case, you could pull the CH all the way back (ejecting a live round) and then release, OR simply tap the FA. As far as using the FA when time is critical, I'll disagree that it's an "unwise" move. Look up the SPORTS acronym. It's an immediate action drill following a malfunction. The T stands for "tap" the forward assist. If your bolt is slightly out of battery after press checking, tapping the FA would be my first action. And if you're in a critical situation when seconds count, you probably waited too long to press check. Last comment about press checking: it's unnecessary. Look at the top round in your mag, load and chamber a round. Eject the mag, look at the top round. If it's on the opposite side, there's a round in the chamber.

Erno86 · Feb 10, 2016

MKR03 said:
Huh? How do you use the charging handle to put the bolt into battery? If you perform a press check by slightly pulling back on the CH until you see brass, then release the CH and the bolt doesn't go back into battery, how can you use the CH to seat the bolt? Press harder on the CH? It doesn't work that way. The CH pulls the BCG to the rear and the energy from the buffer spring sends it forward. The CH cannot push the BCG forward. In that case, you could pull the CH all the way back (ejecting a live round) and then release, OR simply tap the FA. As far as using the FA when time is critical, I'll disagree that it's an "unwise" move. Look up the SPORTS acronym. It's an immediate action drill following a malfunction. The T stands for "tap" the forward assist. If your bolt is slightly out of battery after press checking, tapping the FA would be my first action. And if you're in a critical situation when seconds count, you probably waited too long to press check. Last comment about press checking: it's unnecessary. Look at the top round in your mag, load and chamber a round. Eject the mag, look at the top round. If it's on the opposite side, there's a round in the chamber.

While doing a press check, you don't release the CH, but instead, "after seeing brass...you drive the CH forward with your hand till the bolt is fully seated."

quote: Chris Costa -- DVD- The Art of the Tactical Carbine - Volume II

A nighttime press check by Costa is a little different maneuver, but he still does not suggest using the FA --- instead --- he says to put one of your firing hand fingers on the BCG indentation in the ejection port to feel if the bolt is fully seated into battery --- if not -- you can push that indentation forward to fully seat the bolt.

It's pretty hard to find that Magpul DVD that I described...because of the one's that were sold --- did not function very well...on the second and third disc. Fortunately...someone made me copies.

Most times...I'm too lazy to eject the mag to see the see the odd or even in relation to my round count --- including the noise involved in such a maneuver. meh

outrider58 · Feb 10, 2016

Erno86 said:
While doing a press check, you don't release the CH, but instead, "after seeing brass...you drive the CH forward with your hand till the bolt is fully seated."

quote: Chris Costa -- DVD- The Art of the Tactical Carbine - Volume II

A nighttime press check by Costa is a little different maneuver, but he still does not suggest using the FA --- instead --- he says to put one of your firing hand fingers on the BCG indentation in the ejection port to feel if the bolt is fully seated into battery --- if not -- you can push that indentation forward to fully seat the bolt.

It's pretty hard to find that Magpul DVD that I described...because of the one's that were sold --- did not function very well...on the second and third disc. Fortunately...someone made me copies.

Most times...I'm too lazy to eject the mag to see the see the odd or even in relation to my round count --- including the noise involved in such a maneuver. meh

That only works when the BCG isn't red hot. After that, I recommend using the FA, as you have the rifle rolled over already, give it a pop with your left hand. It's only inches away from the charger.

MKR03 · Feb 10, 2016

Erno86 said:
While doing a press check, you don't release the CH, but instead, "after seeing brass...you drive the CH forward with your hand till the bolt is fully seated."

quote: Chris Costa -- DVD- The Art of the Tactical Carbine - Volume II

A nighttime press check by Costa is a little different maneuver, but he still does not suggest using the FA --- instead --- he says to put one of your firing hand fingers on the BCG indentation in the ejection port to feel if the bolt is fully seated into battery --- if not -- you can push that indentation forward to fully seat the bolt.

It's pretty hard to find that Magpul DVD that I described...because of the one's that were sold --- did not function very well...on the second and third disc. Fortunately...someone made me copies.

Most times...I'm too lazy to eject the mag to see the see the odd or even in relation to my round count --- including the noise involved in such a maneuver. meh

The AR has a non-reciprocating charging handle. You can apply force in one direction (to the rear). The energy that sends the BCG forward comes from the buffer spring, not you "driving the CH forward." If you have an out of battery bolt and you want to push on the thumb indentation on the carrier, go for it (hopefully it's not too hot). I'll just tap the FA.

Erno86 · Feb 10, 2016

outrider58 said:
That only works when the BCG isn't red hot. After that, I recommend using the FA, as you have the rifle rolled over already, give it a pop with your left hand. It's only inches away from the charger.

Sounds like good advice.

Thanks,

Erno

Erno86 · Feb 10, 2016

MKR03 said:
The AR has a non-reciprocating charging handle. You can apply force in one direction (to the rear). The energy that sends the BCG forward comes from the buffer spring, not you "driving the CH forward." If you have an out of battery bolt and you want to push on the thumb indentation on the carrier, go for it (hopefully it's not too hot). I'll just tap the FA.

That's the way Costa {his quote} described it. How much simpler can I describe it?

Pinecone · Feb 11, 2016

vandrv said:
I doubt that I actually over clean them. I don't run them through the washing machine or anything like that. But when I do clean them, i just sort enjoy doing it.

Disassembling and scrubbing the bore and such introduces wear.

In the military, you wear something out, the armorer will replace for free. Not so for personal firearms.

MANY threads on this.

Pinecone · Feb 11, 2016

Erno86 said:
I did not say that the Forward Assist was "unreliable"....I said that using the FA for putting the bolt fully into battery from a press check is unadvisable, because you have to relinquish control {for a right hander} of the firearm. It's better to use the charging handle to send the bolt fully into battery from a press check or if the bolt didn't go fully into battery; because of it being fouled.

Even left handers will find it's more difficult to use the FA than the charging handle.

My major point...that I'm trying to get across: It's better to use the charging handle --- for a right hander --- with a press check and bringing the bolt fully into battery, because if you're performing this operation when some bad guys appear --- you still have full control of the AR with your firing hand --- Whether it's safety manipulation or just pulling the trigger, with the firing hand still wrapped around the pistol grip, and being able to mount the gun to your shoulder in a reasonable amount of time.

Using the forward assist, when time is critical, is an unwise move, in which a extra move is required {moving the FA}, that will cost precious seconds in a critical situation.

1) You do not need to reduce control. Hold hand grip in right hand. Roll rifle to ejection port at about 45 degrees, pull back charging handle with left hand. Check round in chamber. Release charging handle. Reach over, smack FA with LEFT hand.

2) If time is that critical, you would not do a press check. You would engage, pull trigger, if no BANG, Tap, Rack, Bang.

Erno86 · Feb 11, 2016

Pinecone said:
1) You do not need to reduce control. Hold hand grip in right hand. Roll rifle to ejection port at about 45 degrees, pull back charging handle with left hand. Check round in chamber. Release charging handle. Reach over, smack FA with LEFT hand.

2) If time is that critical, you would not do a press check. You would engage, pull trigger, if no BANG, Tap, Rack, Bang.

You are right on #1. I was basing it on a right hand shooter using his firing hand for the Forward Assist maneuver. Except...
When doing a press check {Chris Costa's method} on an AR...you don't need to release the charging handle after you see brass --- You just drive the charging handle forward with your support hand, till the bolt is fully seated. "Reach over, smack FA with LEFT hand" is just an extra move that can cost precious seconds.

As for #'2)' Chris Costa who used to work for Magpul...demonstrated his two press check moves {The Art of the Tactical Carbine Volume II} --- In one scenario, Costa performs as a shooter doing a daytime press check, who thinks everything is safe near his surroundings --- But is caught off guard when some bad guys appear, while he is doing a press check.

"O sh_t!!! boom boom boom!!!" - quote: Chris Costa

Like I said before: Mossberg does not even have a Forward Assist on their AR's in 223 --- much to the dismay of many --- but I would not be worried in the least, if my AR's did not have FA button; even though they do. The {FA} just wasn't in Stoners design till the U.S. Armed Forces brass forced Stoner to put it on his Armalite which is still --- IMHO --- an unneeded design {FA} addition for an AR15/AR10/M4/M16A2

BUFF7MM · Feb 11, 2016

This is turning into a 3% thread. :sad20:

I have no idea who "Chris Costa" is but I'm sure his charging handle is like everybody else's and is not attached to the BCG making it impossible to shove the bolt into battery by "driving the charging handle forward with your support hand".

DaemonAssassin · Feb 11, 2016

Erno86 said:
You are right on #1. I was basing it on a right hand shooter using his firing hand for the Forward Assist maneuver. Except...
When doing a press check {Chris Costa's method} on an AR...you don't need to release the charging handle after you see brass --- You just drive the charging handle forward with your support hand, till the bolt is fully seated. "Reach over, smack FA with LEFT hand" is just an extra move that can cost precious seconds.

As for #'2)' Chris Costa who used to work for Magpul...demonstrated his two press check moves {The Art of the Tactical Carbine Volume II} --- In one scenario, Costa performs as a shooter doing a daytime press check, who thinks everything is safe near his surroundings --- But is caught off guard when some bad guys appear, while he is doing a press check.

"O crap!!! boom boom boom!!!" - quote: Chris Costa

You keep quoting Chris Costa this and that. What does Chris Costa have to do with the value of your life, if you aren't an operator, looking to make money in a video? Answer is: nothing.

The military teaches drills that are proven in combat. Use those and carry on.

MKR03 · Feb 11, 2016

Buff7mm said:
This is turning into a 3% thread.
I have no idea who "Chris Costa" is but I'm sure his charging handle is like everybody else's and is not attached to the BCG making it impossible to shove the bolt into battery by "driving the charging handle forward with your support hand".

Do you even operate bro? I hear if you watch enough Chris Costa videos your skill level rises to approximately MARSOC level. Actually go to one of his carbine classes? We're talking Seal Team 6 skill level when you leave...

BUFF7MM · Feb 11, 2016

MKR03 said:
Do you even operate bro? I hear if you watch enough Chris Costa videos your skill level rises to approximately MARSOC level. Actually go to one of his carbine classes? We're talking Seal Team 6 skill level when you leave...

Where do I sign up. :lol:

lx1x · Feb 11, 2016

MKR03 said:
Do you even operate bro? I hear if you watch enough Chris Costa videos your skill level rises to approximately MARSOC level. Actually go to one of his carbine classes? We're talking Seal Team 6 skill level when you leave...

How dare you ask buff those question.. You know he's the best of the best hooligan. Don't mess with him or he will turn you in to bob Costas.

(Lmao)

AR won't chamber first round

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