PTP gets pulled over

[Darkemp]

I’m probably in the minority here but I thought the MSP Troopers did a nice job of regulating the temperature on that stop and being professional and even cordial throughout.

Guessing that was a FTO and a rookie Trooper, seemed like a good training experience as well for the next generation of MSP, could be a good training video example.

I also thought the driver did a nice job in handling himself and even requesting and being allowed to remove the rig versus the Trooper attempting to draw from appendix which made sense to all considering he had a permit that appeared on the surface and was of course proven valid.

I fully understand why a traffic stop is the most dangerous encounter for LE, and I feel as lawful permit holders we should go above and beyond to represent good behaviors as models to society. Yes of course I believe we have a right to that permit, but that doesn’t preclude the notion of the responsibility lawful carry conveys as well as to behave and interact with LE at a higher level.

 

[Blaster229]

I’m probably in the minority here but I thought the MSP Troopers did a nice job of regulating the temperature on that stop and being professional and even cordial throughout.

Guessing that was a FTO and a rookie Trooper, seemed like a good training experience as well for the next generation of MSP, could be a good training video example.

I also thought the driver did a nice job in handling himself and even requesting and being allowed to remove the rig versus the Trooper attempting to draw from appendix which made sense to all considering he had a permit that appeared on the surface and was of course proven valid.

I fully understand why a traffic stop is the most dangerous encounter for LE, and I feel as lawful permit holders we should go above and beyond to represent good behaviors as models to society. Yes of course I believe we have a right to that permit, but that doesn’t preclude the notion of the responsibility lawful carry conveys as well as to behave and interact with LE at a higher level.

It's a terrible training video because it teaches the Trooper to run every firearm he comes into contact with. Staged videos are certainly not real bodycam vids from actual encounters.
Everyone plays nice when acting.

 

[Darkemp]

It's a terrible training video because it teaches the Trooper to run every firearm he comes into contact with. Staged videos are certainly not real bodycam vids from actual encounters.
Everyone plays nice when acting.

Running the serial I agree not necessary, however neither of these Troopers appeared to be the policymakers either and are likely limited to following what they’re told to do. It’s an issue that would only get resolved at a higher level.

Body cameras do make the whole world a stage don’t they and maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe the driver filed a FOIA for the footage?

 

[jc1240]

Running the serial I agree not necessary, however neither of these Troopers appeared to be the policymakers either and are likely limited to following what they’re told to do. It’s an issue that would only get resolved at a higher level.

Body cameras do make the whole world a stage don’t they and maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe the driver filed a FOIA for the footage?

"Just following (unlawful) orders" has never been acceptable. In fact, they had a DUTY to IGNORE unconstitutional orders.

 

[swinokur]

Officer Discretion is dead

 

[teratos]

Running the serial I agree not necessary, however neither of these Troopers appeared to be the policymakers either and are likely limited to following what they’re told to do. It’s an issue that would only get resolved at a higher level.

Body cameras do make the whole world a stage don’t they and maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe the driver filed a FOIA for the footage?

The only problem is….

in a 1983 lawsuit, the LEO lose their qualified immunity. THIS is just begging for that. The policy makers are fvcking LEO.

 

[Darkemp]

The only problem is….

in a 1983 lawsuit, the LEO lose their qualified immunity. THIS is just begging for that. The policy makers are fvcking LEO.

Agree with this- if they are mandating the serial checks they are ignoring reasonable suspicion and incurring potential personal liability.

 

[Doco Overboard]

I dont use carry guns here so wouldn't know but would pose a question to the persons that do.
If your carrying a pistol, get stopped, inform and all that.
Why not just show your numbers and let the person making contact verify from the weapon, check it out for themselves if thats what they want to do.
You have the state approved training that proves proficiency/safety aspects or you wouldn't have a card right?
Write them down on a piece of damned paper or something if they want to get in their car with something to go on I'm thinking. Let them see it, but dont give it to them if you dont want to. Just tell them what you want to do I dont see it as all that hard. Theyll let you know if they dont agree.
For gosh sakes, its not like your shooting the dam thing while your driving or a jerk or they wouldn't have given one to you in the first place.

 

[Threeband]

Who has the potential personal liability, the policy makers or the LEO who is just following orders?

 

[Doco Overboard]

Who has the potential personal liability, the policy makers or the LEO who is just following orders?

I dont know never thought about it. I can tell you this, Im as far away from a cop as I can get. But if we go to shoot some guns/hunting or whatever, Its me who is responsible to make sure things are right and you know what your doing. If I get shot or someone gets hurt I'm responsible for having my head up my ass.
Thats my policy.

 

[Darkemp]

Who has the potential personal liability, the policy makers or the LEO who is just following orders?

Seems like it’s probably a practice versus a “policy” that’s not in writing anywhere. The LEO’s following would be liable in my opinion if challenged. The MSP would likely just quote statue and put the burden on the Trooper to prove the reasonable suspicion. Just my opinion and IANAL.

 

[teratos]

Who has the potential personal liability, the policy makers or the LEO who is just following orders?

Probably both, but the LEO do, since they are clearly violating your rights. Ask Sgt. Pope.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Seems like it’s probably a practice versus a “policy” that’s not in writing anywhere. The LEO’s following would be liable in my opinion if challenged. The MSP would likely just quote statue and put the burden on the Trooper to prove the reasonable suspicion. Just my opinion and IANAL.

I get what your saying, it's like "I dont know thats just how we do things around here". The way its always been done even if its wrong and we just never thought about it. A latent organizational weakness thats been left unaddressed.
Here's what I'm thinking, dont carry a gun if your too scared to suffer consequences when things go bad or if you think a cop might shoot you.
Or take steps to mitigate known deficiencies. If you are aware and dont do anything you allow negative behaviors and maybe even to a certain degree of complicity by not doing anything about it in the first place.

 

[GTOGUNNER]

Officer Discretion is dead

May Officer Discretion RiP

When was the EOW?

 

[GTOGUNNER]

Probably both, but the LEO do, since they are clearly violating your rights. Ask Sgt. Pope.

Who has the potential personal liability, the policy makers or the LEO who is just following orders?

The guards at German nazi-extermination camps were only following orders. They were still tried for war crimes.

 

[Park ranger]

Really want to drive dnr crazy. Get your maryland wear and carry permit, use a handgun for hunting. Put your orange vest on, load your pistol and put it in a holster then get on your atv and drive to your hunting spot. they Won’t know how to deal with that.

Yep, your not wrong. The judge will PROBABLY confirm that. All for a low low cost of confiscated gun, day vacation and headache.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Yep, your not wrong. The judge will PROBABLY confirm that. All for a low low cost of confiscated gun, day vacation and headache.

Don't forget someone slamming your four wheeler into first gear after an insufficient warm up period when it gets carted off.
A couple of times.

 

[babalou]

All of my traffic stops I have been asked that.

did you affirm? To me a way to fish

 

[rickyp]

Yep, your not wrong. The judge will PROBABLY confirm that. All for a low low cost of confiscated gun, day vacation and headache.

The w&c permits you to carry a loaded firearm as of right no there is no limit to the kind or size of a handgun you can carry. The carry permit allows you to carry in/on a vehicle so you would not be breaking any law, while you are driving your at you are not actively hunting. If you stop and shoot a deer from the atv that is diffrent and they could get you for shooting from vehicle. Now if you have a long gun or don’t have a w&c permit then they can write you a ticket.

if they confiscat your pistol and write you ticket when you where in the law and exercising your right then they open themselves to a large lawsui.

 

[scottyfz6]

Probably not very many carry more than 3 . BUT not necessarily the same 3 all the time .

I dont know about that. This is my carry setup for tomorrow.

I have a class and its for showing people that most people dont notice a thing. I will stand up front with this on under a hoody for a few mins talking, before I ask how many noticed I was carrying a gun ( all unloaded and checked )