Montgomery County Bill 21-22

[Sunrise]

Sure glad that Bill 21-22 is keeping us all "safer":

Woman Injured in Shooting at Shopping Center in Wheaton: Police

Authorities are responding to reports of a shooting at a shopping center located in Wheaton, Maryland.

www.nbcwashington.com

There's a school that's within 100 yards of the Target.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Oh I've seen those "minders" plenty. Their job is to keep people in the cult.

Their Lobbying strategy - You all stand over there , and be quiet while the Pro speaks .

Their Testimony strategy - The herd is handed preprinted testimony , and buncha them just read the same sheet , over and over , one after another .

 

[RFBfromDE]

Sure glad that Bill 21-22 is keeping us all "safer":

Woman Injured in Shooting at Shopping Center in Wheaton: Police

Authorities are responding to reports of a shooting at a shopping center located in Wheaton, Maryland.

www.nbcwashington.com

There's a school that's within 100 yards of the Target.

There oughta be a law!

 

[dblas]

Oh I've seen those "minders" plenty. Their job is to keep people in the cult.

And all we have to do is hold a civil conversation with the followers one at a time to move them off their X.

 

[dblas]

I never moved any goal posts.

You said "mirror of each other". I said "to the same degree". What's different about these?

OK, I'll accept that.

 

[dblas]

They dismiss our facts and studies without reading or debating them. We don't do that. We say "debate me" and they won't do it. Some are probably afraid their peers will catch them learning something outside the cult and exile them.

We need to stop saying "debate me" Debates are to change the minds of an awdiance watching the debate, not change the other person's mind. We need to have simple conversations one-on-one with the followers (the leadership is mixing the koolaide, so no use there). Most of the leadership is very afraid of what happens if the followers have individual conversations, hence the handlers that work very hard in Annapolis to keep them away from us and from talking to us.

 

[dblas]

Agree 100% with this.

It actually does, there are plenty of instances of Anti-2A people being banned/blocked from 2A forums pages.

 

[Occam]

And all we have to do is hold a civil conversation with the followers one at a time to move them off their X.

This really is the only method. They each have to be talked back off of their own ledges. After spending some time with the PP folks (and more) who set up camp in front of the NRA as a presence against the Bloombots post-Parkland, I was visibly Mr. Camera Journalist Guy. Hard to pin down, by my appearance. I hovered next to a conversation between some more overt 2A guys and a couple of Mom types. Towards the end of that, I chimed in when the 2A guys had gone too far into the weeds (hint: by the time you start talking 22 vs 9mm you are done changing anyone's minds about anything!). One of the ladies seemed relieved to have someone else to talk to. We chatted for almost half an hour as I offered to walk her back to her car at the end of the event. She admitted that her understanding of several things (you can just order a gun from the internet! the NRA sells guns to everyone including criminals! the you-can't-sue-gunmakers-for-the-acts-of-criminals law allows gun makers to market Eruby Signature Model Murder Guns made especially for murder and that's why rubber grips don't hold finger prints! and so much more) was just plain misinformation coming from other people she listened to. She was astonished at how friendly and put together the pro 2A people were, and thanked me for the chat. We swapped business cards, and I offered to talk any time, including at a range if she ever wanted to learn more.

If I could replicate that experience every week, I'd be helping. If a thousand of us could, it might move the needle a few percent (though never enough to make even 1% of those folks vote for a different party for all of their other reasons). I have no delusions about red-pilling these sorts, but it does scratch one tiny little itch when someone gets connected to reality a bit. Still, my experience is that diehard MoCo liberals - no matter HOW reality-checked in a warm and friendly way about gun issues - can never bring themselves to vote R for county council or any state-wide office. They hear the other positions that most of them hold (on education, abortion, immigration, climate - pick one) and that's the end of that. So even when they're up to speed on the 2A stuff, they're still generally lost to us in any way that really matters: at the voting booth. So, it's back to litigation on specific topics, and using conversations like that to talk them down from the hysteria, at least on that one issue. I've brought local MoCo residents into the 2A fold, spent ammo money on waking up their senses and sensibilities, and they've been grateful ... and then they go and vote D anyway, because of course they could never sully themselves with a Cox or the like. And they're outnumbered 100:1 here even if they do stray that way.

 

[dblas]

This really is the only method. They each have to be talked back off of their own ledges. After spending some time with the PP folks (and more) who set up camp in front of the NRA as a presence against the Bloombots post-Parkland, I was visibly Mr. Camera Journalist Guy. Hard to pin down, by my appearance. I hovered next to a conversation between some more overt 2A guys and a couple of Mom types. Towards the end of that, I chimed in when the 2A guys had gone too far into the weeds (hint: by the time you start talking 22 vs 9mm you are done changing anyone's minds about anything!). One of the ladies seemed relieved to have someone else to talk to. We chatted for almost half an hour as I offered to walk her back to her car at the end of the event. She admitted that her understanding of several things (you can just order a gun from the internet! the NRA sells guns to everyone including criminals! the you-can't-sue-gunmakers-for-the-acts-of-criminals law allows gun makers to market Eruby Signature Model Murder Guns made especially for murder and that's why rubber grips don't hold finger prints! and so much more) was just plain misinformation coming from other people she listened to. She was astonished at how friendly and put together the pro 2A people were, and thanked me for the chat. We swapped business cards, and I offered to talk any time, including at a range if she ever wanted to learn more.

^^^^ THis is the way ^^^^

If I could replicate that experience every week, I'd be helping. If a thousand of us could, it might move the needle a few percent (though never enough to make even 1% of those folks vote for a different party for all of their other reasons).

We do this to move them off of their X that "guns are bad". We move them away from wanting to ban all guns, and instead work with us to ban the criminals. They don't have to necessarily agree with us on firearms ownership to partner with us against criminals and crime. A lot of people here don't understand that.

I have no delusions about red-pilling these sorts, but it does scratch one tiny little itch when someone gets connected to reality a bit.

It is a good feeling isn't it?

Still, my experience is that diehard MoCo liberals - no matter HOW reality-checked in a warm and friendly way about gun issues - can never bring themselves to vote R for county council or any state-wide office.

Again, it's not about changing how they vote, while that would be nice. It's about changing what they want with regards to safer communities, and when they figure out it's not guns, then we have a win. If we could get half of them to partner with us on crime and criminals, it would be a big win.

They hear the other positions that most of them hold (on education, abortion, immigration, climate - pick one) and that's the end of that.

Here in lies the problem with most people here, they think that the Anti-2A crowd has to agree with us on everything, even firearms and be of the same political affiliation to partner with us.

Guess what, they don't. They just ned to understand that firearms aren't the issue, criminals are.

So even when they're up to speed on the 2A stuff, they're still generally lost to us in any way that really matters: at the voting booth.

Again, forget about the voting booth, it has absolutely no relevance in what we want.

So, it's back to litigation on specific topics, and using conversations like that to talk them down from the hysteria, at least on that one issue. I've brought local MoCo residents into the 2A fold, spent ammo money on waking up their senses and sensibilities, and they've been grateful ... and then they go and vote D anyway, because of course they could never sully themselves with a Cox or the like. And they're outnumbered 100:1 here even if they do stray that way.

We don't need them to vote R, we need them to contact their elected official as a D, in sufficient numbers to get the politicians to change their mind on given legislation.

Not saying this in a bad or demeaning way, but stop making this harder than it needs to be by trying to turn them with regards to political affiliation.

We simply need to move them off of trying to further restrict lawful firearms ownership. It really is that simple.

 

[esqappellate]

This really is the only method. They each have to be talked back off of their own ledges. After spending some time with the PP folks (and more) who set up camp in front of the NRA as a presence against the Bloombots post-Parkland, I was visibly Mr. Camera Journalist Guy. Hard to pin down, by my appearance. I hovered next to a conversation between some more overt 2A guys and a couple of Mom types. Towards the end of that, I chimed in when the 2A guys had gone too far into the weeds (hint: by the time you start talking 22 vs 9mm you are done changing anyone's minds about anything!). One of the ladies seemed relieved to have someone else to talk to. We chatted for almost half an hour as I offered to walk her back to her car at the end of the event. She admitted that her understanding of several things (you can just order a gun from the internet! the NRA sells guns to everyone including criminals! the you-can't-sue-gunmakers-for-the-acts-of-criminals law allows gun makers to market Eruby Signature Model Murder Guns made especially for murder and that's why rubber grips don't hold finger prints! and so much more) was just plain misinformation coming from other people she listened to. She was astonished at how friendly and put together the pro 2A people were, and thanked me for the chat. We swapped business cards, and I offered to talk any time, including at a range if she ever wanted to learn more.

If I could replicate that experience every week, I'd be helping. If a thousand of us could, it might move the needle a few percent (though never enough to make even 1% of those folks vote for a different party for all of their other reasons). I have no delusions about red-pilling these sorts, but it does scratch one tiny little itch when someone gets connected to reality a bit. Still, my experience is that diehard MoCo liberals - no matter HOW reality-checked in a warm and friendly way about gun issues - can never bring themselves to vote R for county council or any state-wide office. They hear the other positions that most of them hold (on education, abortion, immigration, climate - pick one) and that's the end of that. So even when they're up to speed on the 2A stuff, they're still generally lost to us in any way that really matters: at the voting booth. So, it's back to litigation on specific topics, and using conversations like that to talk them down from the hysteria, at least on that one issue. I've brought local MoCo residents into the 2A fold, spent ammo money on waking up their senses and sensibilities, and they've been grateful ... and then they go and vote D anyway, because of course they could never sully themselves with a Cox or the like. And they're outnumbered 100:1 here even if they do stray that way.

Take a Anti to the range. Be respectful, be informative and educate. I couldn't agree more.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Yes. I’ve been run off several sites that became overrun with marxist goons.

1 Non Marxist goon here. RFBfromDE

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

^^^^ THis is the way ^^^^


We do this to move them off of their X that "guns are bad". We move them away from wanting to ban all guns, and instead work with us to ban the criminals. They don't have to necessarily agree with us on firearms ownership to partner with us against criminals and crime. A lot of people here don't understand that.



It is a good feeling isn't it?


Again, it's not about changing how they vote, while that would be nice. It's about changing what they want with regards to safer communities, and when they figure out it's not guns, then we have a win. If we could get half of them to partner with us on crime and criminals, it would be a big win.


Here in lies the problem with most people here, they think that the Anti-2A crowd has to agree with us on everything, even firearms and be of the same political affiliation to partner with us.

Guess what, they don't. They just ned to understand that firearms aren't the issue, criminals are.


Again, forget about the voting booth, it has absolutely no relevance in what we want.


We don't need them to vote R, we need them to contact their elected official as a D, in sufficient numbers to get the politicians to change their mind on given legislation.

Not saying this in a bad or demeaning way, but stop making this harder than it needs to be by trying to turn them with regards to political affiliation.

We simply need to move them off of trying to further restrict lawful firearms ownership. It really is that simple.

Many good points here.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

This really is the only method. They each have to be talked back off of their own ledges. After spending some time with the PP folks (and more) who set up camp in front of the NRA as a presence against the Bloombots post-Parkland, I was visibly Mr. Camera Journalist Guy. Hard to pin down, by my appearance. I hovered next to a conversation between some more overt 2A guys and a couple of Mom types. Towards the end of that, I chimed in when the 2A guys had gone too far into the weeds (hint: by the time you start talking 22 vs 9mm you are done changing anyone's minds about anything!). One of the ladies seemed relieved to have someone else to talk to. We chatted for almost half an hour as I offered to walk her back to her car at the end of the event. She admitted that her understanding of several things (you can just order a gun from the internet! the NRA sells guns to everyone including criminals! the you-can't-sue-gunmakers-for-the-acts-of-criminals law allows gun makers to market Eruby Signature Model Murder Guns made especially for murder and that's why rubber grips don't hold finger prints! and so much more) was just plain misinformation coming from other people she listened to. She was astonished at how friendly and put together the pro 2A people were, and thanked me for the chat. We swapped business cards, and I offered to talk any time, including at a range if she ever wanted to learn more.

If I could replicate that experience every week, I'd be helping. If a thousand of us could, it might move the needle a few percent (though never enough to make even 1% of those folks vote for a different party for all of their other reasons). I have no delusions about red-pilling these sorts, but it does scratch one tiny little itch when someone gets connected to reality a bit. Still, my experience is that diehard MoCo liberals - no matter HOW reality-checked in a warm and friendly way about gun issues - can never bring themselves to vote R for county council or any state-wide office. They hear the other positions that most of them hold (on education, abortion, immigration, climate - pick one) and that's the end of that. So even when they're up to speed on the 2A stuff, they're still generally lost to us in any way that really matters: at the voting booth. So, it's back to litigation on specific topics, and using conversations like that to talk them down from the hysteria, at least on that one issue. I've brought local MoCo residents into the 2A fold, spent ammo money on waking up their senses and sensibilities, and they've been grateful ... and then they go and vote D anyway, because of course they could never sully themselves with a Cox or the like. And they're outnumbered 100:1 here even if they do stray that way.

Many good points here too.

The way I see it is that in order to stem the tide on Anti 2A, the bad actors need to be fewer. Those that seek to destroy 2A need to have some come to Jesus experiences that alter and reshape their mindset. To educate these lemming type Anti's, is likely only going to come once the error impacts them adverselt from their easy on criminals, blame guns and Conservatives for their bad policies or from good experiences such as Occam shared about his reaching out to the Anti lady.

We who defend 2A, also have to not be complacent and take it in the ARSE, no matter how hopeless it may seem in this liberal State we live in.

 

[RFBfromDE]

1 Non Marxist goon here. RFBfromDE

Anyone with an Eastern Europe, Korean, Vietnam or Cuban lineage don’t cotton easily to

Marxist Goons > < Me.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Anyone with an Eastern Europe, Korean, Vietnam or Cuban lineage don’t cotton easily to

Marxist Goons > < Me.

It is funny and a bit ironic. I have some experience with the Koreans. 3 generations, with the most closest to our mindset being the older gen that are our parent's age. They are the most anti Marxist, followed by the almost 60 year old female Korean, New England Liberal University educated and Md University employed mother of 3, 30+ year old third gen. The Liberalism grew strong in the latter 2 gens.

Some, may have experienced the oddity whereby those Eastern Europe, etc you mention, choose Marxist forces in the US, despite having other enemies of their country occupy and brutalize their citizens at one time. Koreans by Japanese, French by Germans, Russia by Germans etc.

Hard to imagine people who got terrorized by oppressors who willing will vote people into govt or vote for laws that take away their rights all over again.

 

[bbutch]

Take a Anti to the range. Be respectful, be informative and educate. I couldn't agree more.

This is how I've converted all but one Anti. Recognize that 9 times out of 10, it's because they're scared of something they've never done before. I always use the analogy of how they were nervous when they were first learning to drive.

 

[RFBfromDE]

Hard to imagine people who got terrorized by oppressors who willing will vote people into govt or vote for laws that take away their rights all over again.

Sure.

Their Marxists just got it wrong.

The next ones that come along will never make the same mistakes!

 

[Sunrise]

There oughta be a law!

Time for another one I guess.

 

[Sunrise]

And all we have to do is hold a civil conversation with the followers one at a time to move them off their X.

I've politely done that and it's had good results. I'm talking about the principals/grifters who refuse to debate.

OK, I'll accept that.

Cool. All good.

We need to stop saying "debate me" Debates are to change the minds of an awdiance watching the debate, not change the other person's mind. We need to have simple conversations one-on-one with the followers (the leadership is mixing the koolaide, so no use there). Most of the leadership is very afraid of what happens if the followers have individual conversations, hence the handlers that work very hard in Annapolis to keep them away from us and from talking to us.

As I mentioned above, "Debate me" is for the principals/grifters, not for the followers. For the followers, it's "let's talk and we probably agree on a lot." That's what I say anyway and it usually goes well.

It actually does, there are plenty of instances of Anti-2A people being banned/blocked from 2A forums pages.

I'm not familiar with this. Interesting.

 

[Sunrise]

Take a Anti to the range. Be respectful, be informative and educate. I couldn't agree more.

Absolutely right on this.