MSP Got one... Instructor caught cutting corners, permits invalidated.

[dblas]

No, Joe Biden is forgiving $10,000 for you.

$20,000 if it's a Pell Grant.

 

[dblas]

It was from someone who's a instructor. Apparently coming from MSP as what they're expecting to see in the future. Not something talked about in a class or anything like that.

I think it's pretty well a given that they will make some kind of changes to make it more difficult. We can't have Marylanders thinking they can be responsible for their own safety.

So an instructor, heard something from MSP who heard something...
Unless it is coming directly from an office on either side of Bladen St. in Annapolis, I would call it BS.

 

[dblas]

Sorry to be ignorant but does the State break down the hours into topics and how long each should be covered?
Seems like each class should have the same syllabus with topic and time allocation if each class is covering the same material.

Tell us you haven't read any of the training threads without telling us you haven't read any of the training threads.
No the state does NOT break down the hours, or provide a detailed syllabus, just what is stated in state statute. (please don't ask for that information, as it has been posted over 50 times since the Bruen decision)

 

[dblas]

The requirements are 16 hours, that the material taught in the 16 hours also includes the HQL material, and the 25 shot shooting qualification. Absent an old and not particularly relevant "lesson plan" from someone in MSP that might be older than FSA2013, that's it.

If you're in the classroom just staring at the wall after the ~4 hour HQL stuff is done, the law is fine with that "training." The 16 hours is a codified requirement.

State Statute DOES NOT require that the HQL material be covered in the 16 hours.
However, state statute does say, if you have a carry permit, you are eligable for a free HQL. So, for those that had a W&C permit before Oct 1, 2013, when there was no training requirement, could then apply for, and receive a free HQL.

 

[dblas]

My other concern here is how the state can decertify everyone who had taken this instructor's class.

There is no state instructor's class, you get certified by a national organization (NRA), and submit your training certificate to MSP, then MSP issues you a QHIC number.

I kind of see how they could say anyone who was in THAT class where a shortcoming was observed by the MSP would not be certified.

But having one bad class is not proof that all the previous classes were bad.

I agree with this, unless they had complaints from other classes.....

In a criminal trial you can't bring up a defendant's previous actions unless they show a specific pattern of behavior that is relevant to the current charge. The fact that a defendant robbed 17 houses previous is not admissable as evidence that he robbed THIS house for THIS charge.

How would that same standard not apply to this instructor? Maybe he was the best instructor that ever lived but got the flu during this one class and mailed it in.

not a court of law, so a lower standard.

I would be curious if the MSP has evidence that shortened classes were a pattern and not a one off incident.

That would be interesting.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

So an instructor, heard something from MSP who heard something...
Unless it is coming directly from an office on either side of Bladen St. in Annapolis, I would call it BS.

I believe Kenpo is referencing the same source. You don't have to believe it, but it seems likely they'll at least attempt it. I certainly doubt they intend to just roll over and take this. And increasing the number of hours required would likely have the desired effect.

I heard from a realible sourse that Attenbery and friends are pushing for the required training to be increased to 32 hours in the next session. Should be interesting to see who shows up to testify against this.

 

[Racinready300ex-2]

I was talking to a relative yesterday. He said his class was about 6 hours long, they qualified with rubber bullets from sim guns and it cost him $350. Took the class a couple weeks back. Didn't ask where he went, but did inform him of the potential issues.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Opps !

 

[Garet Jax]

I was talking to a relative yesterday. He said his class was about 6 hours long, they qualified with rubber bullets from sim guns and it cost him $350. Took the class a couple weeks back. Didn't ask where he went, but did inform him of the potential issues.

Yup - Was talking to a friend on Friday night at poker. He was saying that he found a trainer in Harford County who "found a way to condense the class to only 8 hours". I implored him not to take that course. Not sure if he'll listen or not.

 

[JollyPedro]

Are those same people going to proved 1A, 4A, 5A, 7A training as well?

Absolutely not, there should be absolutely NO mandatory training for an enumerated right.

Agreed 100%!!!! but if we have to do it by law, the cost should be minimal at most....

 

[swinokur]

The point is the law is plainly unconstitutional


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Blacksmith101]

Agreed 100%!!!! but if we have to do it by law, the cost should be minimal at most....

Eliminate the unconstitutional infringement on a natural right and the cost will be $0.

 

[JollyPedro]

Eliminate the unconstitutional infringement on a natural right and the cost will be $0.

So how do we do that?? Id love to see it happen and would put in work to make it so!

 

[Blacksmith101]

So how do we do that?? Id love to see it happen and would put in work to make it so!

Join and donate to MSI and it will happen.

 

[JollyPedro]

Join and donate to MSI and it will happen

How would they make it happen if the Supreme Court confirmed that the state has the right to outline how a permit is obtained (other than good and substantial reason)?? I plan on donating either way as MSI is a great org....just don't see this happening in MD as much as id like it to.

 

[swinokur]

Because the requirement is excessive. The legislative intent is to make it more difficult to obtain a permit, not to make anyone safer. I believe this could be proven in court. The MGA pulled 16 hours out of their collective asses and I think it can be proven but
IANAL

I don’t think the state can prove that 16 hours of training reduced gun deaths in MD at all.

Prior to FSA 2013 there was no training requirement at all IIRC. Some one can correct me if I’m wrong

JOIN MSI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rseymorejr]

Because the requirement is excessive. The legislative intent is to make it more difficult to obtain a permit, not to make anyone safer. I believe this could be proven in court. The MGA pulled 16 hours out of their collective asses and I think it can be proven but
IANAL

JOIN MSI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If and when they increase that next year it'll be Exhibit A for the lawsuit. Blatantly arbitrary and punitive. (Just like everything else they come up with)

 

[JollyPedro]

Because the requirement is excessive. The legislative intent is to make it more difficult to obtain a permit, not to make anyone safer. I believe this could be proven in court. The MGA pulled 16 hours out of their collective asses and I think it can be proven but
IANAL

JOIN MSI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hopefully there is a chance then!!!! would love to it, and all the other BS, go away as well, joining now!!!!

 

[Art3]

Also, flipping the MGA would go a long way towards reducing the infringements.

 

[JollyPedro]

Because the requirement is excessive. The legislative intent is to make it more difficult to obtain a permit, not to make anyone safer. I believe this could be proven in court. The MGA pulled 16 hours out of their collective asses and I think it can be proven but
IANAL

JOIN MSI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just joined MSI!!