AR Pistols/Braces & The Big Bad ATF

[King Chicken]

My plan was to soon create a 12.5" AR15 pistol via brace. I planned things out (parts, asked advice on here ty ty) for months only for the ATF to not grandfather and be a bunch of bastards. Not that I remember any shooting from a AR pistol but f everyone I guess.

What are my options? Without compromising too much on functionality (stability/optics)
Is there a way around giving them money (stamp for SBR)? They owe me money for my time at this point.
What is everyone else on here going to do?

Pretty discouraging how much time I spent looking at parts and going to law school to make sure I was compliant only for them to just pull more laws out of their. Ty always for the advice.

 

[alucard0822]

Build it, shoot it, if the ATF smacks down braces, you can take the brace off and still shoot it if you want to stay legal. When they get sued or change their mind, then slap it back on. For a 12.5" though I wouldn't worry much, easy enough to form 1 it, depending on the caliber or word stamped on the barrel to keep MD legal.

 

[King Chicken]

Build it, shoot it, if the ATF smacks down braces, you can take the brace off and still shoot it if you want to stay legal. When they get sued or change their mind, then slap it back on. For a 12.5" though I wouldn't worry much, easy enough to form 1 it, depending on the caliber or word stamped on the barrel to keep MD legal.

Form 1. Oh ty I didn't know what that was until I just googled it. Yes, I could pay them. Was hoping to see what others thoughts were. I know lots of people are just getting rid of their braces. Not sure what else there is beyond what I just said.

 

[atblis]

I believe the HBAR and or chambering other than 223/556 does not apply to pistols and SBRs.

 

[River02]

I believe the HBAR and or chambering other than 223/556 does not apply to pistols and SBRs.

Correct

 

[GuitarmanNick]

Set up the build so that it has a single point sling attachment on the rear and get a good sling. If the brace has to be removed, you can still shoot it with reasonable accuracy using the sling. Equipped my pistol builds with lasers, too.

 

[Hibs]

There is no updated law outlawing braces. Braces are still good to go as of today.

 

[outrider58]

I believe the HBAR and or chambering other than 223/556 does not apply to pistols and SBRs.

Depends on who you ask. The MGA chased their tails around for a while on the idea, so goggle searches can come up with any number of "correct" answers.

OP(Mr Chicken1), the only reason you will ever catch me shooting a braced 'pistol' in Md is because of the idiotic 29" minimum length requirement for all center fire short barrel rifles. I refuse to put barrels on pistol caliber guns longer than 6". If your plan is to build any gun (SBR/pistol) with a barrel length longer than say, 10.5", that gun would be much more enjoyable to shoot as an SBR with a proper stock than any pistol brace contraption.

 

[King Chicken]

Depends on who you ask. The MGA chased their tails around for a while on the idea, so goggle searches can come up with any number of "correct" answers.

OP(Mr Chicken1), the only reason you will ever catch me shooting a braced 'pistol' in Md is because of the idiotic 29" minimum length requirement for all center fire short barrel rifles. I refuse to put barrels on pistol caliber guns longer than 6". If your plan is to build any gun (SBR/pistol) with a barrel length longer than say, 10.5", that gun would be much more enjoyable to shoot as an SBR with a proper stock than any pistol brace contraption.

Im going to just SBR it. I didn't want to give them money but I'm worried they will keep screwing with laws making it impossible to build what i really want. I want something close to my m16 (but shorter) i once used and for that i want/need a stock, optics, handguard. Just those put me too high on points in their new stupid point system. f them man. I'm not sure how good you are with parts(knowing if they will work together) but perhaps i can run a parts list by you once its fully assembled along with my piggy bank.

 

[brianns]

Can you take the SBRs interstate without an ATF form? I don't recall the form but there is one for Machine Guns. I did it once to take into VA. I had to get the ATF to approve and get a temp VA Machine Gun Registration.

But is it the same for SBRs?

 

[RRomig]

Here you go

Can you take the SBRs interstate without an ATF form? I don't recall the form but there is one for Machine Guns. I did it once to take into VA. I had to get the ATF to approve and get a temp VA Machine Gun Registration.

But is it the same for SBRs?

How can I take my SBR out of state legally?

We get asked this all of the time. How can I legally take my SBR, Silencer or other NFA Firearms out of state with me? The first step in taking your SBR, silencer or NFA Firearm out of the state that it is legally registered at is to figure what state you will traveling to with it. This...

www.nationalguntrusts.com

 

[outrider58]

Im going to just SBR it. I didn't want to give them money but I'm worried they will keep screwing with laws making it impossible to build what i really want. I want something close to my m16 (but shorter) i once used and for that i want/need a stock, optics, handguard. Just those put me too high on points in their new stupid point system. f them man. I'm not sure how good you are with parts(knowing if they will work together) but perhaps i can run a parts list by you once its fully assembled along with my piggy bank.

Feel free. If I don't know something, I'll tell you I don't know.

 

[brianns]

Here you go

How can I take my SBR out of state legally?

We get asked this all of the time. How can I legally take my SBR, Silencer or other NFA Firearms out of state with me? The first step in taking your SBR, silencer or NFA Firearm out of the state that it is legally registered at is to figure what state you will traveling to with it. This...

www.nationalguntrusts.com

Thank you. That clears up my questions. It was the silencers that I had heard were exempt from the 5320 process. I was confusing silencers/suppressors with the SBR. So SBRs were always clearly in need of going through the ATF and other states/jurisdictions for approval.

So Chicken1 make sure you know this if you want your SBR to be your have-gun-will-travel firearm. You will have to fill out all that paperwork specific to out of State locations when you want. Like I said I did it once to take my MG over to friends house in VA to shoot. The approval process wasn't long like it was getting the intial ATF form 4 was. I did the 5320 process like RRomig shared above and went through the Virginia State Police for their temp registration. I had to fill out the address where it was going and I gave a range of a few months to make easier to nail down a time for me and my friend to plan, etc.

I wanted to be able to take my XM177E2 replica around into other State without too much concern so I built the E2 model because a welded together 11.5" barrel and the fake moderator made the 16" and overall was 29" or whatever was needed for MD.

 

[babalou]

Chicken 1 remember what we talked about on the way to the Essen. If you want to SBR, then put a brace to shoot now and do the form 1, enjoy your pistol until the stamps comes back and then put the stock on it. Also, like we discussed the HBAR only applies to rifle length .223/5.56 not pistol, SBR, other caliber rifles.

 

[King Chicken]

Thank you. That clears up my questions. It was the silencers that I had heard were exempt from the 5320 process. I was confusing silencers/suppressors with the SBR. So SBRs were always clearly in need of going through the ATF and other states/jurisdictions for approval.

So Chicken1 make sure you know this if you want your SBR to be your have-gun-will-travel firearm. You will have to fill out all that paperwork specific to out of State locations when you want. Like I said I did it once to take my MG over to friends house in VA to shoot. The approval process wasn't long like it was getting the intial ATF form 4 was. I did the 5320 process like RRomig shared above and went through the Virginia State Police for their temp registration. I had to fill out the address where it was going and I gave a range of a few months to make easier to nail down a time for me and my friend to plan, etc.

I wanted to be able to take my XM177E2 replica around into other State without too much concern so I built the E2 model because a welded together 11.5" barrel and the fake moderator made the 16" and overall was 29" or whatever was needed for MD.

The regulations are like a rabbit hole. There is always some fantastical bs reg right around the corner. Deeper you go the crazier it gets. A stamp from the federal gov should mean I can take it anywhere. Or am I missing something?

This is so out of hand. Ty for making sure I knew!
...guess I'm screwed again..pin and weld is looking nicer...
29 inches overall almost forgot that one. One more complication to my build.
They sure make it hard for a noob.

 

[outrider58]

It's not that complicated. There are plenty of people who go interstate with their NFAs. There is also an expedited method that I have read about where I think you can do it over the phone or something. I've never needed to do this, but plenty of others have. I have it book marked in one of my computors. I'll try and find it tomorrow.

 

[brianns]

The regulations are like a rabbit hole. There is always some fantastical bs reg right around the corner. Deeper you go the crazier it gets. A stamp from the federal gov should mean I can take it anywhere. Or am I missing something?

This is so out of hand. Ty for making sure I knew!
...guess I'm screwed again..pin and weld is looking nicer...
29 inches overall almost forgot that one. One more complication to my build.
They sure make it hard for a noob.

I guess the stamp entitles us to take it anywhere outside the 'home address' as along as we get approval using this other form. Then State's Soveriegnty allows us the opportunity to follow their rules on top of that.

 

[King Chicken]

It's not that complicated. There are plenty of people who go interstate with their NFAs. There is also an expedited method that I have read about where I think you can do it over the phone or something. I've never needed to do this, but plenty of others have. I have it book marked in one of my computors. I'll try and find it tomorrow.

Gratzie

I guess the stamp entitles us to take it anywhere outside the 'home address' as along as we get approval using this other form. Then State's Soveriegnty allows us the opportunity to follow their rules on top of that.

Yeah my problem is with federal regulation I guess.

 

[hogarth]

You can do the Form 20 for a year. I do them for several places I typically go (in laws, typical places I train, vacation, etc) once/yr and then I'm good for the year.

 

[outrider58]

You can do the Form 20 for a year. I do them for several places I typically go (in laws, typical places I train, vacation, etc) once/yr and then I'm good for the year.

This is what I have read ^^^

Here are some helpful links for submitting form 5320 20

Form Transport: Complete with ease | airSlate SignNow

Atf Form 5320 20. Check out how easy it is to complete and eSign documents online using fillable templates and a powerful editor. Get everything done in minutes.

www.signnow.com

...and in case of an expedited F-20

How do I expedite a Form 20?

Earlier this week I received a call from a client who had a last-minute opportunity to attend an out-of-state hunting event. While he was excited about the opportunity, he had a problem. The gun he

johnpierceesq.com