AR Pistols/Braces & The Big Bad ATF

[King Chicken]

This is what I have read ^^^

Here are some helpful links for submitting form 5320 20

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Atf Form 5320 20. Check out how easy it is to complete and eSign documents online using fillable templates and a powerful editor. Get everything done in minutes.

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...and in case of an expedited F-20

How do I expedite a Form 20?

Earlier this week I received a call from a client who had a last-minute opportunity to attend an out-of-state hunting event. While he was excited about the opportunity, he had a problem. The gun he

johnpierceesq.com

Ty ty for the links.

Under manufacturer I would put "myself" or "self" or something if I build it from scratch? Doesn't sound as legit

 

[alucard0822]

Ty ty for the links.

Under manufacturer I would put "myself" or "self" or something if I build it from scratch? Doesn't sound as legit

For most form 1 SBRs you would use the manufacturer and caliber / OAL on your form 1, aka "Aero precision M4E1 300, 28 inches etc. Even though you "manufactured" an SBR by adding a stock, use the lower's manufacturer in that spot. You would use "self" if it is an SBR'ed/F1 80% you made, 3D printed etc. For transoprt, I use "private vehicle"

One thing not covered, is that traveling with an SBR requires a form 20 ONLY if you travel with it in an SBR configuration. Meaning that you can swap a 16" upper on, and provided you don't slap the short upper on till you get back no form 20 needed. Same for a brace, slap on a brace, and it's a pistol till the stock is swapped back on. I don't have one handy, but a few ATF letters back up the fact that an SBR is only an SBR as long as it is configured as one, and can be "converted" to a rifle or pistol and back freely. I do travel with my SBR stuff, but it's pretty easy, I use this form 20 generator, set the date for 1 year (jan1-Dec31) and send it in for whatever I think i'll take with me to stuff out of state. You can stop on the way to your location, but should have a separate letter for each state you intend to stay/shoot at. Takes 2-3weeks and the ATF will send the F20 back to you.

Fill out using the tool(line 1 is name AND address), get PDF in e-mail, check it over and forward e-mail to NFAfax@ATF.gov.

Form 20 generator

Form 20 Walkthrough

 

[King Chicken]

For most form 1 SBRs you would use the manufacturer and caliber / OAL on your form 1, aka "Aero precision M4E1 300, 28 inches etc. Even though you "manufactured" an SBR by adding a stock, use the lower's manufacturer in that spot. You would use "self" if it is an SBR'ed/F1 80% you made, 3D printed etc. For transoprt, I use "private vehicle"

One thing not covered, is that traveling with an SBR requires a form 20 ONLY if you travel with it in an SBR configuration. Meaning that you can swap a 16" upper on, and provided you don't slap the short upper on till you get back no form 20 needed. Same for a brace, slap on a brace, and it's a pistol till the stock is swapped back on. I don't have one handy, but a few ATF letters back up the fact that an SBR is only an SBR as long as it is configured as one, and can be "converted" to a rifle or pistol and back freely. I do travel with my SBR stuff, but it's pretty easy, I use this form 20 generator, set the date for 1 year (jan1-Dec31) and send it in for whatever I think i'll take with me to stuff out of state. You can stop on the way to your location, but should have a separate letter for each state you intend to stay/shoot at. Takes 2-3weeks and the ATF will send the F20 back to you.

Fill out using the tool(line 1 is name AND address), get PDF in e-mail, check it over and forward e-mail to NFAfax@ATF.gov.

Form 20 generator

Form 20 Walkthrough

Ty so much for links!

And the information. Eventually I will have two uppers, one of course 16" barrel. Good to know. Ty again.

 

[rayrevolver]

The new braces that use a standard RE are great...but do go against some of the "rumors" we all repeat about constructive intent SBRs vs pistols ARs.

SBA3™ | SB Tactical

SB Tactical SBA3™. We design, develop and manufacture accessories for firearms including the original pistol stabilization brace.

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A good path is to buy a pistol lower. Shoot it as a pistol. Confirm it is reliable with your mags and ammo. Then get it engraved. Then do a E-Form 1.

The 12.5" barrel is a great do-it-all sized upper. Short enough to be handy and not too much velocity loss compared to a 16". That said, its not a popular upper either, relatively speaking. If you are only going to own 1 AR, a 12.5" can make sense.

For me, the 12.5" extra length plus a suppressor makes it too long/heavy, so my go-to is a 10.3". I have gone through 3 uppers in 12.5" (Noveske GPR which I regret selling, Ballistic Armament, and now the BRT which I am selling and am going to regret) and its always the first to go when I need cash!

 

[lazarus]

My plan was to soon create a 12.5" AR15 pistol via brace. I planned things out (parts, asked advice on here ty ty) for months only for the ATF to not grandfather and be a bunch of bastards. Not that I remember any shooting from a AR pistol but f everyone I guess.

What are my options? Without compromising too much on functionality (stability/optics)
Is there a way around giving them money (stamp for SBR)? They owe me money for my time at this point.
What is everyone else on here going to do?

Pretty discouraging how much time I spent looking at parts and going to law school to make sure I was compliant only for them to just pull more laws out of their. Ty always for the advice.

No suggestions to add on to the already good advice.

But there was a shooting 3-4 years ago in Ohio by a guy with a braced AR. A 300BO IIRC. Downtown somewhere, killed 4 or 5 and wounded a couple more. Quick thinking cop nearby engaged, shit and killed him like 30-40 seconds after the start of the shooting.

He used a big bad AR braced pistol, with a drum, and was wearing body armor. Still neutralized rapidly.

Making braces illegal would just mean he was committing one more crime. Or maybe THAT would have been the line in the sand for him. “You know what guys? Nope. The ATF saidz braces are illegal and I am just not willin’ to break that law. So I’ll need to not go commit mass murder afterall. Phew. Near thing that, right?”

Just like making carry illegal or gun free zones. It just means the law abiding won’t be carrying. Anything that is a behavior or easy for anyone to make/modify/do only stops law abiding citizens. Not criminals.

So ban behaviors that are harmful to others like murder, rape, and second hand smoke (sorry to any smokers out there) because you need to be able to punish people who don’t have the moral code that tells them not to do harmful things to others. And leave the law abiding alone on behaviors and things that in and of themselves pose no harm to others.