Supreme Court remits MD assault weapons ban back to lower courts in light of Bruen vs. NY ruling

[babalou]

MD's carry law dates to 1973. NY's dates back to 1911, before a two thirds of the firearms in my safe were made. What's a few more months to methodically destroy the whole infringement architecture in a way that's going to result in a resilient and robust right to self defense for generations?

Law is the career field for those who would get motion sick being a geologist.

I guess when they passed it no pass go go directly to hell. Why can’t it be the same in reverse? Always heads they win tails you lose

 

[RoadDawg]

I guess when they passed it no pass go go directly to hell. Why can’t it be the same in reverse? Always heads they win tails you lose

Always?

THEY lost… BIGLY… in the SCOTUS in Bruen. And it was a case which took many decades in coming around.

Savor that for a bit and be patient. No sense in anyone jumping the gun right now, and causing us all any added grief. Or, losing their life savings to a defense attorney.

 

[lazarus]

I really wish we could replace the term, "assault weapon," with the accurate description, "modern sporting rifle."

Modern musket.

 

[lazarus]

Fluted HBARs aren't banned.

It does help. A 16" fluted HBAR carbine length gas barrel is around 4oz lighter than a non-fluted barrel. Medium gas it is around 5oz lighter. On a 20" the weight difference is around 7oz.

Basically a fluted HBAR is about the weight of a medium profile barrel or slightly lighter (0-1oz in favor of the fluted HBAR depending on the style of fluting). A pencil barrel is still lighter by 4-8oz depending on the length, gas length, etc.

IMHO, unless you absolutely need the LIGHTEST possible gun, a fluted HBAR is a very good option, even ignoring MD's stupid law. It holds groups and POI significantly better than a pencil barrel does all else being equal. It also dissipates heat significantly faster due to the much larger surface area. Lastly if you ever use a can, the POI shift from a can is MUCH smaller. If I NEEDED to design something as light as possible with no other consideration I'd go pencil. But even a rifle I'd need to hump around all the time I'd rather a few extra ounces for something that is going to maintain accuracy much better with significant use and cool much faster. If it is something that is only ever going to have a few rounds through it at a time, or gets carried "a bunch" but shot at only fairly short ranges, like most competition shooting, pencil would be the way to go. Or HD gun where it might not get carried much, but it also is only going to be shot at short range and a few less ounces swinging it around, running with it, trying to hold it in one hand and a phone in the other...that could be important.

Don't get me wrong, if it gets tossed, I am buying some pencil barrels and building more uppers. But I am for sure keeping my HBARs/fluted HBARs. But I might just want a pencil barrel 20" .223 for deer* and varmint hunting rather than my 20" HBAR (I also have a 20" fluted HBAR I haven't swapped in yet, because the current one just shoots so well. I may just build a new upper to try the fluted barrel on. Or I may just hold it till I've shot out the 20" non-fluted barrel). That thing with optic, despite a bunch of other light parts, is just over 9lbs and you feel it trying to hunt in the woods all day. A pencil barrel to shave the better part of a pound is worth it in this case. But I want the upper with the heavy barrel for bench shooting.

 

[Jim12]

Modern musket.

That's even better.

 

[lazarus]

Always?

THEY lost… BIGLY… in the SCOTUS in Bruen. And it was a case which took many decades in coming around.

Savor that for a bit and be patient. No sense in anyone jumping the gun right now, and causing us all any added grief. Or, losing their life savings to a defense attorney.

For sure. MD will have to fold or be told to fold here sooner rather than later. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn and they grind everything into dust.

MD is going to take hours to weeks to get sorted on G&S. There is zero way around the SCOTUS decision. Now, other things like the AWB? That is going to take significantly longer. A couple of people have asked how long. No crystal ball, but the Appeals court is going to seek responses as mentioned. I think the mention was early August for the petitioner's response and then the state will have about a month or so to respond to that. The appeals court, IIRC, will then schedule new arguments in the case. And then render a decision. The timeline for all of that, since this isn't being decided on an emergency basis, is probably at least 6 months. If the appeals court sends this back down to the district court (which it doesn't sound like it is), then it is figure at least 6 months at district and 6 at appeals.

That is also if it is being done somewhat expeditiously. The Appeals court may take a long time on this. The judges may spend MONTHS coming up with defensible rationales based in H&T on why the ban should be upheld or be stricken. If they uphold it, there is a good chance it will miss cert for next SCOTUS term just because a decision probably won't be rendered until early next year and it may slip into the spring.

I want this all decided now. But I'd rather binding NATIONWIDE precedent, ideally with SCOTUS dealing another Thomas people's elbow smack down. Now, I'd prefer that after the 4th strikes the entire law down and Appeals and SCOTUS refuse to grant a stay pending cert and SCOTUS hearing the case (and then smacking down the state again with a nationwide binding decision).

I think there is little chance the AWB as written is going to be preserved. I do think Maryland is going to try another bite at the apple just like NY is doing now with carry and trying to push the most extreme thing possible that might have some chance at being upheld. I also think just like NY is going making everything a sensitive place and throwing on tons of carry restrictions, they are going to push WAY too far. But I also think some liberal courts are going to be all too likely to continue entertaining the states, despite the VERY clear instruction from the Thomas court.

PS After seeing NY's carry changes, I am really worried about MD's next legislative session. Fortunately, we will have >6 months of court cases under our belt to help guide MGA on what a losing case they are going to have with the same kind of shit NY is now pulling. But I have no doubt Lopez, Atterberry, et al. are going to be back trying to make everything sensitive, doing the same shit requiring a license to carry and a background check required to buy any ammunition, safe storage again. Probably push mag bans and extend the AWB (because let's FAaFO!). I can see them now, "extreme court decisions require extreme legislative responses!"

 

[babalou]

Always?

THEY lost… BIGLY… in the SCOTUS in Bruen. And it was a case which took many decades in coming around.

Savor that for a bit and be patient. No sense in anyone jumping the gun right now, and causing us all any added grief. Or, losing their life savings to a defense attorney.

they win stuff goes away immediately. We win, that stuff is still gone away and have to wait.

 

[Allen65]

they win stuff goes away immediately. We win, that stuff is still gone away and have to wait.

If we had a supermajority in the MGA we could make stuff go away immediately, too. But we don't, they do.

 

[babalou]

If we had a supermajority in the MGA we could make stuff go away immediately, too. But we don't, they do.

I guess I am tired of the hurry up and wait on our side.

 

[teratos]

If we had a supermajority in the MGA we could make stuff go away immediately, too. But we don't, they do.

We don't need the MGA for this. Frosh needs to instruct MSP to remove the G&S requirement and all will be right with the world.

G&S became unconstitutional 06/23/2022 at 10AM. If Maryland insists that G&S is still OK, we can ignore this. The people are not bound to follow Unconstitutional Laws, no courts are bound to enforce them.

 

[GolfR]

I wouldn’t put it past MD and the 4th circuit to thumb their nose at SCOTUS and find some ridiculous passage in history that gives them text and historical justification for the AW and mag Bans. I think in the long run these things will be righted but it may take years of further litigation.

 

[Allen65]

I wouldn’t put it past MD and the 4th circuit to thumb their nose at SCOTUS and find some ridiculous passage in history that gives them text and historical justification for the AW and mag Bans. I think in the long run these things will be righted but it may take years of further litigation.

It's possible. But Thomas handed us a large sledgehammer, and if used wisely it can demolish a lot of walls over time, blow by blow.

And if one of the GVRed case courts ignores SCOTUS guidance, it can be appealed and certed again to give Thomas a chance to take a few whacks with the hammer himself. Overturning legislation is never a fast process, and sometimes ends up taking a few detours before inexorably ending up at the right destination.

 

[esqappellate]

We don't need the MGA for this. Frosh needs to instruct MSP to remove the G&S requirement and all will be right with the world.

G&S became unconstitutional 06/23/2022 at 10AM. If Maryland insists that G&S is still OK, we can ignore this. The people are not bound to follow Unconstitutional Laws, no courts are bound to enforce them.

George, I rather spend my time fighting the laws in court, than bailing folks out of jail or defending criminal charges for defying these laws while we are in the process of getting them thrown out. Of course, defending criminal charges is one way of challenging the law. It is just really expensive and potentially life altering for the criminal defendant. And, of course, there is always a chance the defendant will lose (rightly or otherwise) and spending time in places you rather not be.

 

[teratos]

George, I rather spend my time fighting the laws in court, than bailing folks out of jail or defending criminal charges for defying these laws while we are in the process of getting them thrown out. Of course, defending criminal charges is one way of challenging the law. It is just really expensive and potentially life altering for the criminal defendant. And, of course, there is always a chance the defendant will lose (rightly or otherwise) and spending time in places you rather not be.

Point taken, sir.

I'm still mad.

 

[esqappellate]

Point taken, sir.

I'm still mad.

So am I, so am I.

 

[esqappellate]

It's possible. But Thomas handed us a large sledgehammer, and if used wisely it can demolish a lot of walls over time, blow by blow.

And if one of the GVRed case courts ignores SCOTUS guidance, it can be appealed and certed again to give Thomas a chance to take a few whacks with the hammer himself. Overturning legislation is never a fast process, and sometimes ends up taking a few detours before inexorably ending up at the right destination.

This ^^^

 

[dblas]

But is FSA 2013 GVRd? Is it now vacated?

No, only the AWB portion is GVR'd. It has not ben vacated as of yet either.

 

[Boats]

One of the admins should make that post a sticky.

this!

 

[Vile Shadow]

It's possible. But Thomas handed us a large sledgehammer, and if used wisely it can demolish a lot of walls over time, blow by blow.

And if one of the GVRed case courts ignores SCOTUS guidance, it can be appealed and certed again to give Thomas a chance to take a few whacks with the hammer himself. Overturning legislation is never a fast process, and sometimes ends up taking a few detours before inexorably ending up at the right destination.

What’s “GVRed”?

 

[teratos]

What’s “GVRed”?

Grant - SCOTUS grants cert, taking the case.
Vacate- toss out the ruling.
Remand- send the case to the lower court to re-decide the case with the new ruling in mind.