Maryland CCW Application via MDSP Portal

[teratos]

Daniel Webster’s deposition in the HQL litigation was enlightening. The state (and he) wanted people to be intimidated by law enforcement for their desire to acquire handguns. Prints do that.

Daniel Webster needs to go. A Bona Fide liar, and general shit stain.

 

[Jaybeez]

Fingerprints are a deterrent from applying. That’s a feature, not a bug. I STILL have HQL students who I taught that never got their prints done.

Daniel Webster’s deposition in the HQL litigation was enlightening. The state (and he) wanted people to be intimidated by law enforcement for their desire to acquire handguns. Prints do that.

Frosh is on record saying almost the same thing. At the time when fsa 2013 was in committee, he stated fingerprinting would be done at various msp barracks, and having to be fingerprinted by the police would be a deterrent.

In reality, the fingerprints could be used in a database to give msp real time notifications of any applicants' future arrests. Eliminating the need for future background checks, reapplications and renewals. The state has declined to use them that way for firearms related applicants. I'm under the impression they do that with other state licenses that require prints. With regards to hql and w&c the prints serve no purpose, they aren't used for background checks or identification. They are merely another costly hoop to jump through.

 

[teratos]

Frosh is on record saying almost the same thing. At the time when fsa 2013 was in committee, he stated fingerprinting would be done at various msp barracks, and having to be fingerprinted by the police would be a deterrent.

In reality, the fingerprints could be used in a database to give msp real time notifications of any applicants' future arrests. Eliminating the need for future background checks, reapplications and renewals. The state has declined to use them that way for firearms related applicants. I'm under the impression they do that with other state licenses that require prints. With regards to hql and w&c the prints serve no purpose, they aren't used for background checks or identification. They are merely another costly hoop to jump through.

Let’s confirm this and hammer them on it.

This would make the mad mommies madder.

 

[Abuck]

Agree, bunch of horse manure that amounts to asking a government official for permission prior to excercising a right. The classes should be funded by MGA through a budget approperiation and/or a small fee by applicants. But asking people to pay big bucks for training, prints, and application fees amounts to a poll tax....it will not pass the THT standard of review.

Dang...LOL. It's fun to apply THT to all this nonsense and see how quickly it fails. God bless Clarence Thomas.

Exactly! If it’s a requirement then it should be on their dime, not ours.
The time involved for each state specific course is burdensome as well, and hopefully is eventually addressed also. How many can take off and get a room for these multiple day courses? It’s all a deterrent.

Getting a handgun carry permit should take no longer than 15 minutes.

Hand over form, form is input into system, picture is taken, fiingerprint is run and biometric data saved, hand over $$$, receive permit.

My last PA renewal was 15 minutes. From parking, to pulling out. With a block walk to the courthouse. 5 years ago it took all of 12 minutes, with the same walk, to being back on the road. Had the app filled out, just needed to have them take a new pic, print the LTCF, pay, and leave.

 

[teratos]

MD will try all kinds of shenanigans, I’m sure. Remember what Thomas said:

If it won’t work for the 1A, it won’t work for the 2A.

You guys need to stop thinking the courts will view this as a privilege. It is not. It is a RIGHT.

 

[jeffgall295]

MD will try all kinds of shenanigans, I’m sure. Remember what Thomas said:

If it won’t work for the 1A, it won’t work for the 2A.

No prints for 1A !!
Imagine


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[DC-W]

From HQL suit at district court. See page 12 of Plaintiffs’ Memorandum Cross MOTION for Summary Judgment and Opposition to Defendants' Motion for Summary Judgment

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890.132.0.pdf

Deposition: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890.77.5.pdf

 

[AKbythebay]

The application fee, yes.
But what private businesses charge for their services (training, finger prints), no.

It is the Maryland General Assembly who requires two full day (16 hours) of training and livescan fingerprints. My Florida CCW required no live training and accepted ink fingerprints which my local sheriff's office provides for $20. My beef is not with the private business owners, it is with the MGA. The general assembly purposely made this as onerous and expensive as possible to discourage people from applying for and obtaining concealed carry permits.

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[SWO Daddy]

Fingerprints are a deterrent from applying. That’s a feature, not a bug. I STILL have HQL students who I taught that never got their prints done.

Daniel Webster’s deposition in the HQL litigation was enlightening. The state (and he) wanted people to be intimidated by law enforcement for their desire to acquire handguns. Prints do that.

The employment and reference requirements are still the greatest form of intimidation in my opinion. Notice they aren't asking for a "work number", they specifically ask for "employer's phone number". The implication is that the place of employment for your reference is going to get a call from the MSP

 

[beetles]

Fingerprints are a deterrent from applying. That’s a feature, not a bug. I STILL have HQL students who I taught that never got their prints done.

Daniel Webster’s deposition in the HQL litigation was enlightening. The state (and he) wanted people to be intimidated by law enforcement for their desire to acquire handguns. Prints do that.

Interesting that you bring this up. MD requires fingerprinting for an HQL, but perversely, even if you obtained a set for an application for a different state license (in MD) or for an HQL application not completed but more than a year previously, they still require a new set of fingerprints. There is obviously no legitimate argument to be made for this requirement. The whole point of fingerprinting is that it is supposed to be a durable biological identifier, and has been used as accepted evidence in criminal prosecutions on that basis of uniqueness and durability. (I didn't get new fingers and the data has not been destroyed, so the only way to describe that requirement is as arbitrary, capricious and serving no legitimate public purpose.)

 

[teratos]

The employment and reference requirements are still the greatest form of intimidation in my opinion. Notice they aren't asking for a "work number", they specifically ask for "employer's phone number". The implication is that the place of employment for your reference is going to get a call from the MSP

That will need to go.

 

[Lalez]

From HQL suit at district court. See page 12 of Plaintiffs’ Memorandum Cross MOTION for Summary Judgment and Opposition to Defendants' Motion for Summary Judgment

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890.132.0.pdf

Deposition: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890/gov.uscourts.mdd.365890.77.5.pdf

Marylands HQL is in borrowed time. I cannot believe that:
A.) you guys need a license to actually buy a handgun
B.) then you actually need to register it with the state police so they know what you have (I think only 6 states have registration)

Both of those things are blatantly unconstitutional. The HQL is definitely going to go bye bye soon enough……handgun registration will be a biggie to remove, hopefully it can be done.

 

[Allen65]

The employment and reference requirements are still the greatest form of intimidation in my opinion. Notice they aren't asking for a "work number", they specifically ask for "employer's phone number". The implication is that the place of employment for your reference is going to get a call from the MSP

Nah, the spousal contact is the worst for some of us. My employer has a bigger gun safe than I do.

 

[teratos]

Marylands HQL is in borrowed time. I cannot believe that:
A.) you guys need a license to actually buy a handgun
B.) then you actually need to register it with the state police so they know what you have (I think only 6 states have registration)

Both of those things are blatantly unconstitutional. The HQL is definitely going to go bye bye soon enough……handgun registration will be a biggie to remove, hopefully it can be done.

I don’t think we’ll ever get rid of registration. I’d bet a very large number of Republicans will vote for UBCs after the next school shooting.

 

[Lalez]

I don’t think we’ll ever get rid of registration. I’d bet a very large number of Republicans will vote for UBCs after the next school shooting.

I understand. But all UBC’s does is mean I can’t meet another FL resident at the local Publix here in FL to buy a pistol with no background check, which I may or may have not done many times. One time I actually bought a pistol from a FL sheriff deputy at Publix, he had advertised on FL gun trader, met him, showed him my CCW permit, gave him the cash, he wrote a Bill of Sale….new gun for me. UBC would mean that is no longer possible unfortunately.

And again…..only 6 states have registration. Unless you mean the 4473 is de facto Registration

 

[teratos]

I understand. But all UBC’s does is mean I can’t meet another FL resident at the local Publix here in FL to buy a pistol with no background check, which I may or may have not done many times. One time I actually bought a pistol from a FL sheriff deputy at Publix, he had advertised on FL gun trader, met him, showed him my CCW permit, gave him the cash, he wrote a Bill of Sale….new gun for me. UBC would mean that is no longer possible unfortunately.

Yep. Though there is a very long tradition of face to face sales. We’ll see. That’s the way it ought to be.

 

[Allen65]

I understand. But all UBC’s does is mean I can’t meet another FL resident at the local Publix here in FL to buy a pistol with no background check, which I may or may have not done many times. One time I actually bought a pistol from a FL sheriff deputy at Publix, he had advertised on FL gun trader, met him, showed him my CCW permit, gave him the cash, he wrote a Bill of Sale….new gun for me. UBC would mean that is no longer possible unfortunately.

And again…..only 6 states have registration. Unless you mean the 4473 is de facto Registration

A Federal requirement for UBCs for intrastate face to face sales might be challengeable, because there isn't a direct interstate commerce aspect to the transaction. State requirements wouldn't have the same legal vulnerability.

 

[DC-W]

References and work info are in pretty common across the country for carry licenses. This is not a defense of them in anyway, but rather just the current reality.

 

[teratos]

References and work info are in pretty common across the country for carry licenses. This is not a defense of them in anyway, but rather just the current reality.

What other rights do you need references or even a job to exercise?

Rhetorical question.

 

[Allen65]

References and work info are in pretty common across the country for carry licenses. This is not a defense of them in anyway, but rather just the current reality.

But were they historically and traditionally common?