- May 5, 2010
- 6,588
77gr SMK is better anyway, and wouldn't be stabilized except with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist.
Just pick one, and keep shooting until you're safe.
Just pick one, and keep shooting until you're safe.
HOW DARE YOU SIR. Our tactical security force wears only the finest 5.11 Tactical apparel! 5.11's concealed-carry-friendly clothes allow us to seamlessly blend into crowds while I carry the "deadly duo" of a Glock 26 and a Glock 34 MOS Gen5 w/ RMR Type-2 carefully hidden in Fobus IWB and AIWB holsters, along with several 33rd Glock magazines for extended firefights. That's in addition to our standard loadout of Kel-Tec SU-16s with twelve 40rd C-Products mags filled with Tula 55gr. I've found them extremely reliable, far more so than the trashy Sig Rattlers with Magpul Gen3s we've eval'd - Mk318 Mod 0 rounds kept going nose-up while feeding in those POS, not that they were all that accurate anyways. In order to keep our low-profile in these urban operations, we've rattle-canned the SU-16s in "stealth grey". We deploy them with shortened stocks, heli-crew-style.
Let me tell you, you can mock us all you want, but we're keeping you SAFE out there. Just the other day, we had a "situation" in the movie theater. The deputy mayor's stepson had a suspicious man with a boner sit next to him and look at him inappropriately. The mall ownership called in FBI HRT, but the feds were overpowered by the thick doors of screen 7 and overwhelming scent of buttered popcorn. My team did a forced entry with C4, put down the perp, and saved the boy's anal virginity. HRT thanked us later in a secret ceremony where we demonstrated some techniques that they use to this day.
I don't call myself a hero, but I guess I've heard others say it. Just doing my job in the increasingly violent world of retail security.
Yup...Gecko...or a relation...or channeling...LOL!!! You’re on a roll
Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.
HOW DARE YOU SIR. Our tactical security force wears only the finest 5.11 Tactical apparel! 5.11's concealed-carry-friendly clothes allow us to seamlessly blend into crowds while I carry the "deadly duo" of a Glock 26 and a Glock 34 MOS Gen5 w/ RMR Type-2 carefully hidden in Fobus IWB and AIWB holsters, along with several 33rd Glock magazines for extended firefights. That's in addition to our standard loadout of Kel-Tec SU-16s with twelve 40rd C-Products mags filled with Tula 55gr. I've found them extremely reliable, far more so than the trashy Sig Rattlers with Magpul Gen3s we've eval'd - Mk318 Mod 0 rounds kept going nose-up while feeding in those POS, not that they were all that accurate anyways. In order to keep our low-profile in these urban operations, we've rattle-canned the SU-16s in "stealth grey". We deploy them with shortened stocks, heli-crew-style.
Let me tell you, you can mock us all you want, but we're keeping you SAFE out there. Just the other day, we had a "situation" in the movie theater. The deputy mayor's stepson had a suspicious man with a boner sit next to him and look at him inappropriately. The mall ownership called in FBI HRT, but the feds were overpowered by the thick doors of screen 7 and overwhelming scent of buttered popcorn. My team did a forced entry with C4, put down the perp, and saved the boy's anal virginity. HRT thanked us later in a secret ceremony where we demonstrated some techniques that they use to this day.
I don't call myself a hero, but I guess I've heard others say it. Just doing my job in the increasingly violent world of retail security.
20" barrel is just too darn long.
I believe the velocity threshold for M193 to fragment is something like 2700fps. So you're pretty much good with any modern setup besides the really short SBRs.
Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.
Thats what she said....NEVER
77gr SMK is better anyway, and wouldn't be stabilized except with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist.
Just pick one, and keep shooting until you're safe.
to throw some math in it... from some place else..
The required twist is given by:
View attachment 240036
The factors are:
twist
air density
gyroscopic stability factor
lateral and longitudinal moments of inertia
cross-sectional area
diameter
overturning moment coefficient
Greenhill Formula for Optimal Rifling Twist Rate
https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/AndrewBudd/Greenhill+Formula+for+Optimal+Rifling+Twist+Rate
-Rock
Based on what? Clandestine did a video that did not support your 77 SMK HD position.
Also, 77 SMK may shoot very well out of a 1-9 twist barrel. I have shot mine several times out to 600 yards, F-class and field matches.
I have shot out to 550 yards +- with both 52 gr SMK and 55 gr Hornady Soft point flat based bullets at prairie dogs. A few trips and 7,000 rounds later I can tell you for certain that the SMK doesn't kill a 2 pound rat as well as the soft point bullet will. My buddy also had better luck with factory loaded Fiocchi 55 gr soft points. The SPs would blow the PD in half, the SMK would do so sometimes under 300 yards, but at 400, 500 yards and beyond, it would hit like a FMJ.
Original 1-14 twists with 55 grain FMJ bullets were devastating on flesh according to early use in Viet Nam.
I agree with you to keep shooting till you are safe.
Good Luck
Jerry
Well that clears that all up. Thanks!
figured to change it up a little...
just to see what happens....some want the answers so
others provide the equations to figure it out, but have
to admit, when some one provided me with the links and
equations, basically said "you figure it out"...
another site gets into the ballistics of it, thrust, COAL,
twist, trajectory, with equations..and is interesting to
say the least. Bryan Litz has some great reading material,
If all you want to do is pull the trigger hear a bang then
a clang so be it... not trying to be smart.... then it boils
down to the person / operator.....
anyway over the years have barrels with 1-14,1-12,1-10,
1-8,1-7 twists and lengths from 7.5"-24", have an old 788
in .223 that i used for a lot of testing with 45gr-62gr bullets
including ones made from .22LR cases. but same thing what
works for me and my firearm may not work in yours, chamber
throat, etc.. what reamer was used and how many barrels has
it been used for... a little off topic but...
Everyday day is a learning experience...
and we try different things..and learn different things..
-Rock
to throw some math in it... from some place else..
The required twist is given by:
View attachment 240036
The factors are:
twist
air density
gyroscopic stability factor
lateral and longitudinal moments of inertia
cross-sectional area
diameter
overturning moment coefficient
Greenhill Formula for Optimal Rifling Twist Rate
https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/AndrewBudd/Greenhill+Formula+for+Optimal+Rifling+Twist+Rate
-Rock
Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.
Let me tell you, son, when I'm patrolling the mall with my tactical team, your old-ass M193 isn't going to get it done. I need the firepower to penetrate STEEL HELMETS at 600yds, because the TANGOS inhabiting the Olive Garden aren't messing around... besides the helmets, they've got daddy's old Rem 700 hunting rifle in 30-06 with API rounds and thermal scopes. You've got to hit them HARD AND FAST from as far away as possible, or your ass is going to be lit up like a pharmacy in a race riot. Don't even get me started on the punks at Lane Bryant... they may like fatties, but they're also packing Barrett .50cals, which is incidentally why I always duct-tape double-layered level IV+ plates to my front and back.