HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

[BeoBill]

Tweeted.

 

[danb]

Looking at the criteria, this bill certainly could be used the same way Police use stop, search and frisk. Except for your house. If they can show some nexus to prior abuse of controlled substances and firearms. Throw in a confidential informant that heard vague threats at 2am.

Many view stop and frisk as having driven crime down in NYC and blame the ACLU agreement for the rise in crime in Chicago. Would anyone here really object if LEO used this to harass Baltimorons instead of those of us in the suburbs with NRA stickers? I realize that the intent of this bill is to get mentally ill people, but the fact that it could be used for some other purpose probably means it will, eventually. Like I said, I do not think it should be too hard to manufacture a reason to knock on a door with less than probable cause, only reasonable grounds, and then everything in plain view is fair game.

 

[BeoBill]

And to make it easy....just cut and paste the account below into an email so your recipient does not even have to go clicking to find it!

Send the story below to every MD legislator and to Governor Hogan, and post the link on their pages!


FIRST USE OF FLORIDA'S NEW RED FLAG LAW CREATES THE NIGHTMARE MANY HAVE WARNED US ABOUT!

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ki...-student-accused-of-planning-school-shooting/...

Tweeted, with a direct reference to our beloved HB <SPIT>.

 

[Allen65]

Would anyone here really object if LEO used this to harass Baltimorons instead of those of us in the suburbs with NRA stickers?

I have in the past, and I will continue to, and I've taken cr*p from both Liberals and Conservatives for it. Rule of Law and the Bill of Rights, all of it, don't stop at neighborhood borders. As far as the law is concerned, someone is not a criminal until he or she has been convicted with due process. HB1302's core is an insult to the concept of Rule of Law, and the Due Process that's an integral component of it.

That's why it has to be fought with maximum energy and completely defeated before there can be any more discussions about mental health or other compromises. To do otherwise would be like a soldier whose side is outnumbered, under heavy attack, and in danger of utter destruction, stopping fighting to hold a discussion with his buddies about whether some of the adversary's grievances may have some basis in fact.

 

[BeoBill]

The Democrat legislators are paid, their lackeys are paid, and even the MPGV lobbyist who wrote the RED FLAG bill trap is getting PAID.

The only currency on our volunteer side is ENERGY, and I will be damned if bored sideliners come in here and burn the only currency we have in the weeks, the days and now JUST THE HOURS WE HAVE LEFT to fight suffocation projects aimed at us.

Every day we are asking unpaid and uncompensated folks to lace up their boots and head out with RIGHTEOUS energy to work for our community, which is nothing less than an honor to undertake, and with achievements by those unbowed and unbroken!

And to add:

ANY ACTION on your part will help, no matter how small in the eyes of others. Not everyone can man the ramparts picket line on the bricks in Annapolis, but even a short email to your RepreCritters that says nothing more than:

Hello -

I do not like HB1302. See you at the polls.

Love & xxx
Voter

may be the final straw required to defeat this travesty of law. Just take a minute to do something about this.

 

[dblas]

Maryland total active voters registered as of March 2018

Democrat .. 2,136,893.
Republican .1,006,027 .

How many unaffiliated, or registered as another party, that could be swing votes?

 

[dblas]

Some kids were always picked last for the dodge ball team....

Raises hand...

Look at me now....

 

[danb]

I have in the past, and I will continue to, and I've taken cr*p from both Liberals and Conservatives for it. Rule of Law and the Bill of Rights, all of it, don't stop at neighborhood borders. As far as the law is concerned, someone is not a criminal until he or she has been convicted with due process. HB1302's core is an insult to the concept of Rule of Law, and the Due Process that's an integral component of it.

That's why it has to be fought with maximum energy and completely defeated before there can be any more discussions about mental health or other compromises. To do otherwise would be like a soldier whose side is outnumbered and in danger of defeat in detail, stopping fighting to hold a discussion about whether some of the adversary's grievances may have a basis in fact.

Its an abomination to the 4th amendment.

My point is though is that while everyone is worried about their NRA sticker or social media posts, mostly this bill will be abused in the ordinary way: To gain strategic advantage in a divorce, or used by LEO to pry open some doors where they don't have probable cause.

This bill wont be killed by Hogan vetoing it, or Republicans voting against it. Hogan said he will sign something, and Republicans are in the minority. This bill will be killed by Democrats concerned about police overreach and impact on their constituents. Confiscating guns from a Florida boy who thinks Cruz is a hero and admitted to simply not having the "courage" to shoot up a school, or harassing someone with an NRA sticker, to Dems around here, sounds like a feature not a bug. We need to come up with more.

 

[dblas]

Is that Ramirez lounging to Miller's right?

Hm...My guess is it's these two who were responsible for the PP arrests.

I also wonder if conviction was never their goal, but getting all your personal information was, knowing that they were going to ram through this legislation and then they could come after the PP folk, knowing all that and fabricating a reason to come after you.

That'll fix you for gumming up the little prick's coffee with his (hand-picked) "constituents."

I wonder if Miller et al. understand that this bill calls them out as well, since they own firearms, and are just as eligable to be a recipient of an ERPO?

 

[K3LAG]

I wonder if Miller et al. understand that this bill calls them out as well, since they own firearms, and are just as eligable to be a recipient of an ERPO?

I suspect they believe they are well enough connected that no judge or other authority would issue an ERPO against them unless they actually had a real reason too. Most of us don't have that luxury, however.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I wonder if Miller et al. understand that this bill calls them out as well, since they own firearms, and are just as eligable to be a recipient of an ERPO?

Their power, prestige, and title will exempt them from being 1302ed.

Being 1302ed will be reserved for the underclass. Us!

We fought a bloody revolution to escape this very thing.....Only to end up right back where we started.

The MGA is doing this to us because they have the power and the will to do so. Nothing more.

 

[whistlersmother]

I suspect they believe they are well enough connected that no judge or other authority would issue an ERPO against them unless they actually had a real reason too. Most of us don't have that luxury, however.

Perhaps not against the legislator critter himself/herself, but certainly against their spouse, adult child, client, business partner, etc.

 

[dad4]

And to add:

ANY ACTION on your part will help, no matter how small in the eyes of others. Not everyone can man the ramparts picket line on the bricks in Annapolis, but even a short email to your RepreCritters that says nothing more than:


may be the final straw required to defeat this travesty of law. Just take a minute to do something about this.

My wife tired of our personal discussion, regarding HB1302, and composed a letter expressing our disappointment that such a bill would be considered. She sent the letter to the entire Senate. I did similarly sending my challenge, to HB1302, to Hogan. It's something.

 

[Schipperke]

How many unaffiliated, or registered as another party, that could be swing votes?

~ 760,000 . The Mitt and Trump both came out with 35% total vote.

I'd be surprised if they vote on this Bill now. Why give Hogan points to the single issue 2A voter who now bemoan he's lost their vote and let him win them back with a Veto here. Hogan already is on board with the trigger ban which many voters know about. This Red Flag thing is fringe enough, not on the radar of majority or voters, it has no capital to attack Hogan with when he vetoes. Dems already tried using the gun card against Hogan. They try guns again after he ratifies the trigger ban, it ain't gonna sell for the second time either. As one member testified, they already grab guns without this law, so what's the point pushing this if Hogan is not on board.

 

[danb]

Sending it to conference could have been a ploy to kill the bill, like they did with Omnibus crime bill. Or it could have been a ploy to ram unvetted language through the legislature at the last second, language which we wont have time to digest.

 

[buellsfurn]

Their power, prestige, and title will exempt them from being 1302ed.

Being 1302ed will be reserved for the underclass. Us!

We fought a bloody revolution to escape this very thing.....Only to end up right back where we started.

The MGA is doing this to us because they have the power and the will to do so. Nothing more.

Very true, and due process will exist in their case

 

[John from MD]

.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Come on, Fellas.

Not the place or the time.

We can go back to hating on each other and questioning each other's motives at 12:00:01am on Tuesday.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Another one of our helpful members, who is focusing on research for our cause rather than blather exercises, sent this to me via PM.

It is yet another instance of states that have been swept up in the Red Flag fad that will undoubtedly lead to confrontations, deaths of police officers, costly lawsuits, score-settling, and ruined lives.

We have now turned up TWO disgraceful cases that unfolded in the newest RED FLAG state in a matter of days.

Bottom Line on this case: Due Process on this and all other cases, imposes NO COSTS, just requires diligence because our Constitution is not the problem.

Florida Police Issue First Order to Disarm Citizen They Deemed Mentally Unstable

Broward, FL — In what’s being called the first gun confiscation of its kind in Florida, police have taken four guns and a couple hundred rounds of ammunition from a 56-year-old Lighthouse Point man. The man was not tried, had not committed a crime, and the guns were solely removed because “experts” deemed him a threat.

The guns and ammunition have been temporarily removed from the man under the state’s new “risk protection” law, which is also sometimes called “red flag” legislation, Lighthouse Point City Attorney Michael Cirullo confirmed, according to the Sun-Sentinal.

“We know it’s the first case of its kind in Broward County and we think it’s the first one in Florida, under the new law,” Cirullo said. “Up until the introduction of this law last week, there was no process for us to protect the public in this kind of situation.”

In Florida, prior to passing the new gun control law, people deemed psychologically unfit could be involuntarily hospitalized under what is called the Baker Act. During this involuntary admission to a hospital, the person is evaluated to determine if they are a risk to themselves or others.

Only after they had been psychologically evaluated and deemed a threat could the government then move in to temporarily disarm them. Now, however, this tiny bit of due process is no longer necessary and “experts” can simply deem someone a threat and take their guns.

Although the 56-year-old man was subsequently Baker Act-ed, his guns were taken before this happened.

To illustrate the insidious nature of Florida’s new bill and its rights-violating implications, prior to the new legislation, if police would have done what they did to this 56-year-old man—taken his guns with no due process—they would be fired and fined up to $5,000.

It is important to note that this man was certainly acting strangely and, according to the Sun-Sentinal, he told officers he “was being targeted and burglarized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a neighbor who lives in (his) building,” the judge wrote in his order. “(He) could not describe the neighbor but stated that the neighbor ‘shape shift, he can change heights and I’m not sure where he comes from’ and ‘to be honest, he looks like Osama Bin Laden.'”

He also turned off all of his power to the apartment he lived in. By all means, he was acting very strangely. However, he still deserved due process.

It will now be up to the man to prove that he is healthy enough to ever be able to get his guns back again.

To be clear, no one here is advocating for people determined to be mentally unfit to be able to possess firearms. However, they need to be determined to be mentally unfit before they lose their rights.

This law was a reaction to the shooting in Parkland, however, it is important to point out that there were already laws on the books that should’ve stopped Nikolas Cruz from ever getting a gun. Citing Cruz as the reason for advocating the removal of due process, the anti-gun activists are claiming he should’ve had his guns taken which would have prevented the tragedy. Sadly, however, they are ignoring the fact that he was accused of multiple felonies—and should’ve never been able to purchase a gun in the first place—but law enforcement failed to act on any of it.

In Florida, if a person making death threats intends for the victim to fear for her safety, specifically fearful of death or bodily harm, it is considered a credible threat under the law, which changes the crime from stalking, a first-degree misdemeanor, to aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree. Cruz was reported at least 4 times for this very crime before he bought his AR-15 and police did nothing.

Florida’s law also mirrors another due process-removing law that was recently used in Washington state to remove a man’s guns.

As TFTP reported earlier this month, there is a law on the books known as the Extreme Risk Protection Order or ERPO, which went into effect in June of 2017. This law is used when a person is considered an “extreme” threat as reported by police and family members. An ERPO must be approved by a judge and only after this person is proven to be a danger to themselves or others can police move in to confiscate their weapons.

“We now have to go to someone’s house and knock on the door and say, ‘We’re from the government. Can we have your guns?’” Seattle police Sgt. Eric Pisconski told KIRO Radio’s Dave Ross. “That can get very dangerous.”

While touted as a necessary tool for police, an ERPO and Florida’s new law both remove due process as the person who is accused of being mentally unstable does not have to be present and gets no chance of facing their accuser.

To those who may be in favor of such laws, consider the following: There is no way to stop an estranged spouse from call police repeatedly and telling them their ex is threatening to cause harm to others. While the man in Florida had his guns taken for being psychologically unfit, the man in Seattle simply open-carried a pistol and looked out of windows and his guns were taken because his neighbors thought it was strange.

Anyone, any time, now has the ability to claim someone else is a threat and have police take their guns. One does not need to delve into the multiple ‘what if’ scenarios to see what sort of ominous implications arise from such a practice. What’s more, police now have the power to deem you a threat at any time and legally disarm you—due process be damned.

This is the exact scenario that Donald Trump advocated for in February. Last month, notorious gun-grabber Senator Dianne Feinstein, sat next to Donald Trump and likely salivated over his remarks as he called for the removal of due process and to “take the guns first.” Now, police are doing just that.

To those that support the removal of due process under the ostensible notion that it would make you safer, you would do well to remember history before you or someone you know finds yourself subject to these very laws.

 

[Schipperke]

Yep, Sergey had pointed that one here too. Plug in Indiana or Connecticut you'll find some good ones.