Custom AR barrel" X-Caliber? Other suggestions?

[fabsroman]

You do realize there are 50 bazillion non-Colt heavy barreled AR15 rifles in this state? Do you think that the MSP are going to come around and gather all of these uppers/rifles and put us all in jail? Do you really think that?

Look at how soft they are on other weapons. They (MSP) have come out and said their own list of banned firearms has flaws and is not accurate.

You build your rifles the way you want. But please stop trying to ruin the situation for everyone else because you has some type of crusade in mind.

What was your purpose for starting this thread? Was it to find barrels that meet your specifications or was it to start an argument about what is and is not a qualifying HBAR in this state?

Did you read the thread about the guy who sent a letter to the MSP asking questions about a perfectly legal AK. Now that same rifle is on the banned list.

Is this what you're trying to do?

If it is, please stop. We don't need another crusader trying to ruin it for the rest of us. Please keep your crusade to yourself. We don't need a friendly ruining it for the rest of us. We have enough enemies trying to the exact same thing you're doing. Trying to find an angle to make more firearms illegal for us to purchase.

You do realize that there are those who read this forum, not for the enjoyment of shooting firearms, but for informational reason to build a case against us using our own reasons.

I ask of you to stop and actually have this thread deleted. There is so much damaging information that could be construed by the anti-gun movement, it's dangerous.

And as far as me trying to get things banned, that is not my intention. Heck, I have $600 tied up in tax stamps for 3 SBR builds. Thing is, I don't want to have $30,000 tied up in attorneys fees at some later date because of this. Certainly do not want to be charged with something that would make me a prohibited person, possibly lose my professional licenses, and worst of all, possibly go to prison.

Guess I have to do a risk/reward analysis and decide where to go from here.

 

[j_h_smith]

And as far as me trying to get things banned, that is not my intention. Heck, I have $600 tied up in tax stamps for 3 SBR builds. Thing is, I don't want to have $30,000 tied up in attorneys fees at some later date because of this. Certainly do not want to be charged with something that would make me a prohibited person, possibly lose my professional licenses, and worst of all, possibly go to prison.

Guess I have to do a risk/reward analysis and decide where to go from here.

I am looking to have a couple of custom AR barrels made for me for .300 BLK and .458 SOCOM SBR builds. I came across X-Caliber this morning and am seriously debating getting the barrels from it. Anybody have any experience with X-Caliber barrels?

Anybody have any other suggestions for a custom AR barrel? Looking at 12" for the 458 SOCOM and 10.5" for the 300 BLK, and I want both of them to be HBAR or Heavy (yeah, I know the debate about HBAR/SBR and I am erring on the side of caution).

So let me ask you this? Your original post, was it bait so that you could start this crusade? Okay I get it. You don't want to spend money on a lawyer. But what does this thread have to do with that? You can take you private crusade elsewhere. No one else in interested in giving the anti-gun folks more information. That's what you're doing. You're arguing something that no one else here is interested in. You can have your crusade, but it doesn't belong here. For someone not interested in getting things banned, you sure sound like a poster boy for the anti gun groups.

I politely ask you to remove this thread. You may have already done more damage than you know.

 

[fabsroman]

So let me ask you this? Your original post, was it bait so that you could start this crusade? Okay I get it. You don't want to spend money on a lawyer. But what does this thread have to do with that? You can take you private crusade elsewhere. No one else in interested in giving the anti-gun folks more information. That's what you're doing. You're arguing something that no one else here is interested in. You can have your crusade, but it doesn't belong here. For someone not interested in getting things banned, you sure sound like a poster boy for the anti gun groups.

I politely ask you to remove this thread. You may have already done more damage than you know.

You know what, the more you write me to remove this thread, the more irritated I get. Lots of people on here get bent out of shape when other laws are not enforced to the tee, especially drug laws and firearm possession violations by prohibited people. So, why shouldn't we get bent out of shape when other firearms laws are not enforced to the tee. Ah, because it does not suit us, but enforcing the other laws is just fine because they don't involve something we like and/or want to do.

My initial post wasn't to do a bait and switch. You think I spent umpteen hours looking online for a HBAR .223 barrel in 11.5", an HBAR .300 BLK barrel in 10.5", and an HBAR .458 SOCOM barrel in 12". Before that, I spent several more hours creating a trust and applying for three tax stamps which cost me $600. Then, some more time analyzing the AG's position on copy versus the MSP's position on copy. Then, even more time trying to track down what the heck an HBAR even is? You think I did all that, looked at a custom barrel from X-Caliber for $500+ so I can attempt to comply with a law that I think is gray as can be, and then posted this thread so I could have a discussion on this?

Notice how many people have responded with any information about X-Caliber barrels. ZERO Think I even stated in my initial post, or close thereto, that I did not want to have a discussion about how I could go with any profile barrel I want on a SBR.

This really is the entire Sessions marijuana issue, but as it applies to HBAR rifles in Maryland. We should not have to live with laws that are this vague.

Lastly, how the heck was an AK legal after 9/30/2013, and then all of a sudden not legal? Either it is legal or not legal based upon the letter of the law. What did people do with the banned AKs that they bought before the MSP put them on its website's banned list? Do they still own them? What happens if they get caught with one now?

 

[j_h_smith]

Goodbye, I'd like to say it was a pleasure, but it wasn't.

 

[inkd]

I hear you and I appreciate the thought behind your post. I've already had the debate with others as to whether an SBR barrel needs to be HBAR or not. There is disagreement there. I've done the research on what is considered "HBAR", and the MSP advisory is about as good as it gets in this regard. Stamped or advertised as such. Thing is, I cannot find my reference that states this. Thought I had seen it in a MSP Advisory, but I don't have anything in my saved files that supports my memory. So, now I am sitting here wondering where the heck I saw the MSP position on what constitutes HBAR.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=202425&page=3&highlight=pickle

Post #26 to be specific but here is the content from that specific post anyway.

Here is the email chain I had with the MSP regarding HBAR criteria.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: matt
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM
Subject: AR-15 Barrel criteria
To: "msp.firearmsregistration@ maryland.gov" <msp.firearmsregistration@ maryland.gov>

Hello,

Could you advise me on the criteria for what makes an AR-15 barrel a heavy barrel? I have a couple of barrels I want to sell but do not want to sell them to anyone in Maryland if they would not be able to be used.

Thank you,
Matthew


On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 6:41 AM, MSP Firearms Registration -State Police- <msp.firearmsregistration@ maryland.gov> wrote:

Matthew,

Maryland State Police has adopted the following criteria for determining a heavy barrel AR-15 style rifle or individual barrel:

1) The barrel is stamped as a heavy barrel or "H-bar"
2) The barrel has documentation from the manufacturer deeming it as a heavy barrel
3) The barrel is identified on the manufacturers website as being a heavy barrel

Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Sergeant Donald R. Pickle, Jr.
Maryland State Police
Licensing Division
Firearms Services Section
1111 Reisterstown Road
Pikesville, MD 21208
410-653-4500 ext. 4465
Fax: 410-653-4036
Fax: 410-486-6360 (77R's Only)


On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 1:26 PM, matt morton wrote:

Sergeant,

So a barrel listed as medium weight "contour" on a company website would not be Maryland compliant?

A "heavy barrel" criteria, for Maryland is not based on weight or physical dimension, but on whether or not the manufacturer brands it as "heavy"?

I hate to be a stickler, but I may be getting ready to lose an expensive bottle of scotch in a bet to a friend based on this, and be forced to sell the barrels out of state.

Thank you again,
Matthew



From: Donald Pickle -State Police- <donald.pickle@maryland.gov>
To: MSP Firearms Registration -State Police- <msp.firearmsregistration@ maryland.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: AR-15 Barrel criteria


Matthew,

Correct, a "medium weight contour" would not be MD compliant. Unfortunately, with no clear definition for weights or dimensions specified in statute, the previous criteria I sent you is what we have to go with. So, yes, the MD criteria is based on what the manufacturer deems the barrel to be. Sorry about the scotch.

Sergeant Donald R. Pickle, Jr.
Maryland State Police
Licensing Division
Firearms Services Section
1111 Reisterstown Road
Pikesville, MD 21208
410-653-4500 ext. 4465
Fax: 410-653-4036
Fax: 410-486-6360 (77R's Only)

Please refer to the Maryland State Police website for up to date information.
Thank You
http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizatio...gDivision.aspx

 

[dreadpirate]

Thanks Inkd - works for me.

 

[omegared24]

FWIW...a dealer I spoke to stamps barrels with "HBAR" to help alleviate concerns regarding the law. They only stamp barrels that are advertised as such by the manufacturer.

The email exchange from the MSP begs a ton of questions that would open a Pandora's box that none of us want to deal with. Sometimes you're better off not giving anyone any ideas that can make your life miserable.

I prefer to live by the standards specified in that email. They're pretty clear to me.

 

[dreadpirate]

Notice how many people have responded with any information about X-Caliber barrels. ZERO

I believe I did respond. Let me recap for you in case you missed it.

Odin Works advertises their 18" 6.5 Grendel barrel as being "heavy profile". I have this barrel (that I run on a pre-ban lower but will LEGALLY be putting on another lower thank you).

AND - I also pointed out there is a Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel on the Maryland Roster listed as "Not Banned".

Those are two examples. Here is third example; An HBAR 6.8 SBC from Rock River; that CLEARLY is advertised as HBAR:

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index...onid=5848F4A627B4CB1E42F7F64EED905BFD.cfusion

 

[inkd]

FWIW...a dealer I spoke to stamps barrels with "HBAR" to help alleviate concerns regarding the law. They only stamp barrels that are advertised as such by the manufacturer.

The email exchange from the MSP begs a ton of questions that would open a Pandora's box that none of us want to deal with. Sometimes you're better off not giving anyone any ideas that can make your life miserable.

I prefer to live by the standards specified in that email. They're pretty clear to me.

You could go waaay deep into the rabbit hole if you choose to.

Personally, I don't choose to.

 

[inkd]

Thanks Inkd - works for me.

You're more than welcome. I completely forgot that I said I was going to post the email when I got back in town. Life got in the way and it slipped my mind.

 

[fabsroman]

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=202425&page=3&highlight=pickle

Post #26 to be specific but here is the content from that specific post anyway.

Here is the email chain I had with the MSP regarding HBAR criteria.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: matt
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM
Subject: AR-15 Barrel criteria
To: "msp.firearmsregistration@ maryland.gov" <msp.firearmsregistration@ maryland.gov>

Hello,

Could you advise me on the criteria for what makes an AR-15 barrel a heavy barrel? I have a couple of barrels I want to sell but do not want to sell them to anyone in Maryland if they would not be able to be used.

Thank you,
Matthew


On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 6:41 AM, MSP Firearms Registration -State Police- <msp.firearmsregistration@ maryland.gov> wrote:

Matthew,

Maryland State Police has adopted the following criteria for determining a heavy barrel AR-15 style rifle or individual barrel:

1) The barrel is stamped as a heavy barrel or "H-bar"
2) The barrel has documentation from the manufacturer deeming it as a heavy barrel
3) The barrel is identified on the manufacturers website as being a heavy barrel

Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Sergeant Donald R. Pickle, Jr.
Maryland State Police
Licensing Division
Firearms Services Section
1111 Reisterstown Road
Pikesville, MD 21208
410-653-4500 ext. 4465
Fax: 410-653-4036
Fax: 410-486-6360 (77R's Only)




Please refer to the Maryland State Police website for up to date information.
Thank You
http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizatio...gDivision.aspx

Thanks for posting the e-mail. Think I still need to speak to a couple of FFL friends of mine to see if they have an official MSP advisory that they can give me regarding this. I tried to look on the MSP website for the advisory, but I could not find it. Looked through the FAQ section and tried to find a backdoor to all the advisories via one advisory I found, but no luck there.

 

[fabsroman]

I believe I did respond. Let me recap for you in case you missed it.

Odin Works advertises their 18" 6.5 Grendel barrel as being "heavy profile". I have this barrel (that I run on a pre-ban lower but will LEGALLY be putting on another lower thank you).

AND - I also pointed out there is a Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel on the Maryland Roster listed as "Not Banned".

Those are two examples. Here is third example; An HBAR 6.8 SBC from Rock River; that CLEARLY is advertised as HBAR:

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index...onid=5848F4A627B4CB1E42F7F64EED905BFD.cfusion

Yes, you responded, but not about whether the X-Caliber barrels are any good.

I have no issue finding 16"+ barrels that are HBAR, heavy, advertised as such, stamped as such, etc. My problem is finding HBAR barrels for the short barrel rifles I am going to build. I need a 5.56 in 11.5" and a .300 BLK in 10.5" that are good barrels. I have found a couple barrels on the cheap that will probably fit the bill (e.g., Bear Creek), but the reviews of the barrels aren't spectacular, if there are any reviews whatsoever. So, in doing my umpteenth search for a SBR HBAR barrel, I came across X-Caliber and its custom barrels. Earlier today, I thought to myself, screw it, they guarantee 1 MOA with a specific bolt, so I'll just go the X-Caliber route with an SBR HBAR barrel and call it a day. If it shoots like crap, I'll return it.

 

[fabsroman]

FWIW...a dealer I spoke to stamps barrels with "HBAR" to help alleviate concerns regarding the law. They only stamp barrels that are advertised as such by the manufacturer.

The email exchange from the MSP begs a ton of questions that would open a Pandora's box that none of us want to deal with. Sometimes you're better off not giving anyone any ideas that can make your life miserable.

I prefer to live by the standards specified in that email. They're pretty clear to me.

Thing is, I need this response in an official capacity. I don't know if saying, "Well, your honor I read this e-mail on a chatboard and that was good enough for me" would cut it in my case. So, I'm going to speak to some FFLs. I am hoping they can give me something official. If not, I need to figure out how to craft an e-mail that will get me the same e-mail response above.

 

[dreadpirate]

To address your original question - never heard of X Caliber and probably would not touch one. My input is as follows; go with a solid brand like Krieger, Odin Works, Noveske, White Oak, Criterion if you want a nice barrel. Print out and save the web page that states it's heavy profile, done.

 

[omegared24]

Thing is, I need this response in an official capacity. I don't know if saying, "Well, your honor I read this e-mail on a chatboard and that was good enough for me" would cut it in my case. So, I'm going to speak to some FFLs. I am hoping they can give me something official. If not, I need to figure out how to craft an e-mail that will get me the same e-mail response above.

I agree. Something generic that anyone can stash away just in case would be great. Please feel free to share.

I think the main concern is eliciting doubts where they are forced to alter wording that would expand restrictions simply because that is easier to do than being specific.

Unfortunately, I'm still confused whether or not I can put my 300 blk upper on my post ban lower. Heavy barrel or not.

 

[outrider58]

To address your original question - never heard of X Caliber and probably would not touch one. My input is as follows; go with a solid brand like Krieger, Odin Works, Noveske, White Oak, Criterion if you want a nice barrel. Print out and save the web page that states it's heavy profile, done.

I'd add Rainier to that list as well. Lots of luck finding heavy 300AAC barrels though.

 

[fabsroman]

I'd add Rainier to that list as well. Lots of luck finding heavy 300AAC barrels though.

Yeah, I have been searching for something since the stamps came back. That has really been the only thing holding up the builds. Reviewing the law and then finding a great SBR heavy barrel. Found a couple of heavy barrels in each cartridge, but they are from obscure manufacturers that I do not have much trust in.

Just went and looked at my tax stamps. March 2016 and April 2016 was when they were approved. Been at this search for nearly two years. Might just have to pay somebody to make the barrels for me by cutting down nice 16" barrels.

 

[fabsroman]

I'd add Rainier to that list as well. Lots of luck finding heavy 300AAC barrels though.

https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier...ckout-800-gas-block-tin-extension-10-5-satin/

.300 BLK 10.5" ultramatch that looks awesome. "proprietary" contour.

 

[BradMacc82]

Black Hole Weaponry (now Columbia River Arms). https://columbiariverarms.com/custom-barrel-configurator/configure/20563/

Configure your own barrel, whatever profile, gas system, fluting, coating, length.

Give the barrel 60 to 100 rounds to break-in, and enjoy shooting lights out after. Easy peasy.

.

 

[fabsroman]

To address your original question - never heard of X Caliber and probably would not touch one. My input is as follows; go with a solid brand like Krieger, Odin Works, Noveske, White Oak, Criterion if you want a nice barrel. Print out and save the web page that states it's heavy profile, done.

What about Anderson Manufacturing?

https://www.andersonmanufacturing.com/product/10-5-300-blackout-barrel-2/

Then there is crap like this, at $109:

https://www.300-blackoutupper.com/p...5-pistol-barrel-1-7-twist-416r-steel-polished

Which has me saying to myself, "you get what you pay for".