What is better in low light situations

[Czechnologist]

Defense...smart defense...is so much easier to execute successfully.













The only damned bad thing is this is the second or maybe even third time I've agreed with Blaster this week.

 

[Boom Boom]

if you want to use a red dot in the low light (or any light for that matter) also consider how big the sight window is. Eotechs are far more forgiving if you dont have good sight alignment, which, in a real situation, could happen.

Giant fraud issue aside, EOTech sights still suck compared to open tritium sights for low-light indoor conditions. There's no substitute for an unobstructed view to keep your attention focused on a moving perp instead of a tiny window. Since positive ID is so important, the cheapest LED flashlight is a better solution for indoor HD than any whiz-bang red dot.

 

[smokey]

Giant fraud issue aside, EOTech sights still suck compared to open tritium sights for low-light indoor conditions. There's no substitute for an unobstructed view to keep your attention focused on a moving perp instead of a tiny window. Since positive ID is so important, the cheapest LED flashlight is a better solution for indoor HD than any whiz-bang red dot.

If you're going to use the sights, red dots and open sights actually work essentially opposite of what you're describing. A red dot allows for single plane focus....so you're looking at the thing you want to shoot as you superimpose the dot over it. For traditional open sights, you need to line up the rear, front, and target. If you're going to use the sights, a red dot allows you to be much more focused on the threat than traditional irons. It's one of the main strengths of a rmr on a pistol.

 

[outrider58]

Is there some over-thinking going on here? Probably. It really comes down to individual preference. What you are comfortable with and train with. When you train and drill with a handgun with standard sights, eventually you get so in-tune with that gun(beware the man with only one gun) that presenting and putting shots on target are done without much effort or forethought. Likewise, red dots are very much the same way. I have been shooting Eotechs for so long, I do not notice the minimal frame at all. All I do is make the dot appear where I want my shots to land. Both eyes open(in either case), pointing and shooting.

 

[DevinRPD]

Giant fraud issue aside, EOTech sights still suck compared to open tritium sights for low-light indoor conditions. There's no substitute for an unobstructed view to keep your attention focused on a moving perp instead of a tiny window. Since positive ID is so important, the cheapest LED flashlight is a better solution for indoor HD than any whiz-bang red dot.

personal preference aside and just speaking in logical terms, an eotech's window is far from tiny and can fit a person's head down to their lower hips at 10-15 yards. The last thing a person should worry about is if their pistol sights are lined up correctly. and if we are talking about moving targets in a stressful life-death environment, keeping that alignment is gonna be troublesome. Irregardless, i agree completely that a flashlight and target acquisition is more important than what type of optics are used

 

[Biggfoot44]

In a close range life & death situation , you darn sure don't want to miss .

 

[Blaster229]

Is there some over-thinking going on here? Probably. It really comes down to individual preference. What you are comfortable with and train with. When you train and drill with a handgun with standard sights, eventually you get so in-tune with that gun(beware the man with only one gun) that presenting and putting shots on target are done without much effort or forethought. Likewise, red dots are very much the same way. I have been shooting Eotechs for so long, I do not notice the minimal frame at all. All I do is make the dot appear where I want my shots to land. Both eyes open(in either case), pointing and shooting.

And the best thing is, you don't even need a $700 red dot to "point and shoot" a threat. You must be a belt and suspenders kind of guy LOL

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

And the best thing is, you don't even need a $700 red dot to "point and shoot" a threat. You must be a belt and suspenders kind of guy LOL

....not so much.

Trap door boxers.

That's Outrider all the way.

 

[outrider58]

You must be a belt and suspenders kind of guy LOL

Some days, we all need a little extra help.

 

[Boom Boom]

If you're going to use the sights, red dots and open sights actually work essentially opposite of what you're describing. A red dot allows for single plane focus....so you're looking at the thing you want to shoot as you superimpose the dot over it. For traditional open sights, you need to line up the rear, front, and target. If you're going to use the sights, a red dot allows you to be much more focused on the threat than traditional irons. It's one of the main strengths of a rmr on a pistol.

How much do you practice this scenario in real life, in low light, trying to clear a confined area indoors, with some degree of stress? In my opinion, it's a situation that doesn't lend itself to a windowed sight. Been there multiple ways for $$$. Too much attention is pulled into the sight window instead of maintaining overall situational awareness and making full use of senses. That's critically important since the goal is to clearly identify any threat and act responsibly if a threat is found. Opening fire is a last resort. In the unlikely event you have to fire, 20 feet is a long shot inside a house. If you've practiced with the gun you're holding, you shouldn't have to depend on lining up sights or searching for a dot. Your reaction and accuracy should be instinctual when the threat is more or less right on top of you. You can't expect the threat to stand still while you take bullseye aim.

 

[fred333]

I posed this in the Optics forum, but it's tangentially relevant here, so I'll pose the basic question again: Do any of the optics makers offer an optic that contains a remaining round-count heads-up display within the optic? Being able to tell, in your optic, how many rounds you've got left would be a boon to shooting under stress, especially in low light. It seems like an obvious use for modern "smart" technology. Anyone ever see something like that for sale?

 

[outrider58]

I posed this in the Optics forum, but it's tangentially relevant here, so I'll pose the basic question again: Do any of the optics makers offer an optic that contains a remaining round-count heads-up display within the optic? Being able to tell, in your optic, how many rounds you've got left would be a boon to shooting under stress, especially in low light. It seems like an obvious use for modern "smart" technology. Anyone ever see something like that for sale?

Can't you count to ten? (J/K)

An interesting idea. Shouldn't be too difficult to come up with something like that. The resurgence of Eotech?

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Thus the brilliance of tactical reload.

 

[Blaster229]

How much do you practice this scenario in real life, in low light, trying to clear a confined area indoors, with some degree of stress? In my opinion, it's a situation that doesn't lend itself to a windowed sight. Been there multiple ways for $$$. Too much attention is pulled into the sight window instead of maintaining overall situational awareness and making full use of senses. That's critically important since the goal is to clearly identify any threat and act responsibly if a threat is found. Opening fire is a last resort. In the unlikely event you have to fire, 20 feet is a long shot inside a house. If you've practiced with the gun you're holding, you shouldn't have to depend on lining up sights or searching for a dot. Your reaction and accuracy should be instinctual when the threat is more or less right on top of you. You can't expect the threat to stand still while you take bullseye aim.

Don'tcha know? Many here live in homes with 15 & 25 yard hallways that require shots taken like that. LOL

What I never hear when guys are "clearing their house", is how they secure every room they have checked without other team members with them?

Always a wise idea to leave a position of dominance (your room), fight your way to other parts of the house, clear and leave unsecured rooms and hallways for no reason at all, just to fight your way back to the unsecured room you just left your other half or family in. Then try to enter without your significant other blasting you through the door. All of this happening in lighting fast moments.
And if you are leaving your POD(position of dominance or position of advantage) to go get to other family members, you are certainly not clearing your way there. You are making a B line straight to them fighting along the way if needed.

 

[outrider58]

Looks like I'll be going back to mall guard school for a refresher...

 

[Blaster229]

Looks like I'll be going back to mall guard school for a refresher...

LOL

 

[fred333]

An interesting idea. Shouldn't be too difficult to come up with something like that.

Pressure-sensitive strip along the side of a magazine that produces a voltage depending on where the pressure's located. As the rounds leave the mag, the voltage drops, producing a descending count on the HUD. Easy-peasy.
Anyone wanna invest?

 

[smokey]

How much do you practice this scenario in real life, in low light, trying to clear a confined area indoors, with some degree of stress? In my opinion, it's a situation that doesn't lend itself to a windowed sight. Been there multiple ways for $$$. Too much attention is pulled into the sight window instead of maintaining overall situational awareness and making full use of senses. That's critically important since the goal is to clearly identify any threat and act responsibly if a threat is found. Opening fire is a last resort. In the unlikely event you have to fire, 20 feet is a long shot inside a house. If you've practiced with the gun you're holding, you shouldn't have to depend on lining up sights or searching for a dot. Your reaction and accuracy should be instinctual when the threat is more or less right on top of you. You can't expect the threat to stand still while you take bullseye aim.

I practice more than most, but not as much as others. I think you'll notice I used language like "if you're going to use the sights" on purpose. I then just described how the red dot and open irons are different in terms of the visual planes you use as you line them up. Red dots do let you focus on the target and then superimpose the dot over it, mostly through just kinesthetic awareness(point shooting). Iron sights require you to remove focus from the target in order to line the rear and front sights up with the target. These are just facts about how the sights work.

As far as "clearing", like blaster pointed out, there's no such thing as clearing by yourself. The most likely scenario that I kind've hope for(should a break-in occur), is that I just get the gun and move to the top of the stairs right outside my bedroom. It's the only way to my upstairs and it's pretty easy to control. As I'm there, my wife should be free to go get the kids and move to a space where she can get more guns and call for 911.

I have zero interest in ninja'ing around my house, since it would mean I'm the one moving down the stairs and presenting a wonderful target to anyone downstairs. Police and their buddies can take care of that for me if the need arises.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Some days, we all need a little extra help.

He's wearing those wrong...

You're supposed to wrap the garter half way round your calf so the catch doesn't show on your outside calf.

Really.

 

[outrider58]

He's wearing those wrong...

You're supposed to wrap the garter half way round your calf so the catch doesn't show on your outside calf.

Really.

I came to the right place then...

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