Any 6.5 Grendel AR Platform Proponents or Detractors out there?

[dreadpirate]

OBTW- Happy Easter!

Now - I have always felt 223/5.56 is limiting. What do I want? I want an AR platform rifle that does everything that is fun. Hunting deer. Hunting hogs. The option of shooting larger game. Plinking. 2 gun. 3 gun. Shooting at ranges with longer range facilities if the opportunity presents itself (like 500+ yards).

Seems to me the 6.5 Grendel is simply more capable than a 5.56. Where it's not so good is at being an SBR; really useless with barrels under 18". Some say at least a 20" barrel. Ok - will need a 223 or 300 Black for that use case, but look at all the other things you get with 6.5 Grendel. And 6.5 Grendel is not terribly expensive like (e.g.) 6.8 SPC.

What do you guys see as the pros and cons of 6.5 Grendel on the AR platform? Just want to make sure this is not something I am missing.

 

[starmetal]

Having much to do with the 6.5 Grendel I can say it's a pretty good round, BUT it's a tad too much for the AR 15 platform. The bolt had to be hogged out to accept the 7.62x39 size rim and this weakened it. Further more Bill Alexander used machined out 5.56 bolts and did so to hide the circumference groove on the face of almost all 5.56 bolt so nobody would know he done so. As you may know these bolts were made from 158 carpenters steel. Cutting that .011 recess in the bolt face further undermined the lugs and weakened them. In the beginning there were bolt failures. Then along comes the 9310 steel bolts and it seems to have alleviated the bolt failure. The next problem, one which has plagued the AR 15 wildcats from the beginning, is the magazine is too short for the longer heavier bullets by the limiting OAL. The 6.5 Grendel is a fairly straight bodied case. Everything has to be perfect for it to feed reliably. I honestly feel the Army rejected it because of the weaken bolt and the case being stubby and fairly straight which isn't conductive to a dirty environment which the Army often operates in. Even with all these short comings it's a fun little round and offers more then the 5.56, 6x45, 6.8, and 300 Black Out or Whisper. To get full potential out of it, as mentioned by the OP, you should go with the longer barrels. I had a 6.5 Grendel and had much fun with it. It's very accurate and flat shooting. The bottom line is you can have your cake and eat with with an AR 10 in 6.5 Creedmore. AR 10 have lost some weight now with improvement. My Grendel that I owned has a 22 inch heavy match barrel and the rig with scope and sling went a little over 11 pounds so you can see it's no lightweight in that configuration.

 

[dreadpirate]

Having much to do with the 6.5 Grendel I can say it's a pretty good round, BUT it's a tad too much for the AR 5 platform. The bolt had to be hogged out to accept the 7.62x39 size rim and this weakened it. Further more Bill Alexander used machined out 5.56 bolts and did so to hide the circumference groove on the face of almost all 5.56 bolt so nobody would know he done so. As you may know these bolts were made from 158 carpenters steel. Cutting that .011 recess in the bolt face further undermined the lugs and weakened them. In the beginning there were bolt failures. Then along comes the 9310 steel bolts and it seems to have alleviated the bolt failure. The next problem, one which has plagued the AR 15 wildcats from the beginning, is the magazine is too short for the longer heavier bullets by the limiting OAL. The 6.5 Grendel is a fairly straight bodied case. Everything has to be perfect for it to feed reliably. I honestly feel the Army rejected it because of the weaken bolt and the case being stubby and fairly straight which isn't conductive to a dirty environment which the Army often operates in. Even with all these short comings it's a fun little round and offers more then the 5.56, 6x45, 6.8, and 300 Black Out or Whisper. To get full potential out of it, as mentioned by the OP, you should go with the longer barrels. I had a 6.5 Grendel and had much fun with it. It's very accurate and flat shooting. The bottom line is you can have your cake and eat with with an AR 10 in 6.5 Creedmore. AR 10 have lost some weight now with improvement. My Grendel that I owned has a 22 inch heavy match barrel and the rig with scope and sling went a little over 11 pounds so you can see it's no lightweight in that configuration.

Interesting - so my 20/22" 6.5 Grendel may end up being longer and heavier than an AR10, and perhaps more likely to have a FTF. Hmm.

 

[starmetal]

Interesting - so my 20/22" 6.5 Grendel may end up being longer and heavier than an AR10, and perhaps more likely to have a FTF. Hmm.

FTF....NO....not at all. You see they eventually got all the dimensions for the chamber and the reloading dies figured out, especially after Steve Hornady got the round SAAMI spec. So as long as your chamber is clean, and I don't mean from powder carbon, but dirt...you're fine.

Yes you can expect the rifle to be heavy if you have a fat 20-22 inch barre. BTW if you're going to run a longer barrel, any barrel 24 inches or longer on an AR 15 is hard on the threaded barrel tenon and should have a bipod on it to support the weight especiall when shooting from a bench. If you ever have a chance to handle a stripped AR 15 upper, especially the flattops, put it in your shirt pocket and see how light it is. Weight it. You'll be surprised. Then think of that long heavy barrel putting leverage on that thin threaded tenon.

 

[starmetal]

I will tell you another fun round for the AR 15 and that is the 6x45. It's just a 5.56/223 case necked up to 6mm. Nothing but the barrel is proprietary. You just run your 5.56/223 cases in the 6mm sizing die and it's done. In fact I have shot some spectacular groups using first formed brass. The round has a little more oomph then the 5.56/223. It's just not good with the heavy 6mm bullets. Most barrels come in either your choice of an 8 or 9 twist. I still have that rifle and it wears an 18 inch LW barrel and is extremely accurate.

 

[dreadpirate]

You know, I might be willing to take the hit in performance to to get a lighter 6.5 Grendel rig. So an Alexander Arms 20" upper is 6 lbs. But Alexander Arms has an 18" upper that is 4 lbs (lighter profile barrel). That's huge. I see my Hornady manual has ballistics for the 18" barrel and they are not bad.

 

[dreadpirate]

I will tell you another fun round for the AR 15 and that is the 6x45. It's just a 5.56/223 case necked up to 6mm. Nothing but the barrel is proprietary. You just run your 5.56/223 cases in the 6mm sizing die and it's done. In fact I have shot some spectacular groups using first formed brass. The round has a little more oomph then the 5.56/223. It's just not good with the heavy 6mm bullets. Most barrels come in either your choice of an 8 or 9 twist. I still have that rifle and it wears an 18 inch LW barrel and is extremely accurate.

More to consider.

 

[dreadpirate]

The thing I like about the 6X45 is I can use my current mags and a standard AR bolt. Would have to build it, but could build exactly what I want. Not sure where to find reloading data on 6X45; it's not in my Hornady manual, unless I missed it some how.

 

[starmetal]

Don't know what to tell you. Well if you used STAG upper and lower receivers and either a LW or Satern (cut 5R rifling) barrel, a RRA two-stage National Match trigger, you'd be way ahead of the AA complete rifle as far a better quality and accuracy. You can't have it both ways, that is light weight and extreme accuracy. You have to make up your mind what you really want. With that my pick for extreme accuracy at long range is a heavy 22 inch barrel. I went with the heavy 18 inch on 6x45 for couple reasons: one, the smaller bore loses less velocity with the shorter tube, two, the 22 inch 6.5 Grendel was little unwieldy, three, I wasn't just going to be shooting the 6x45 off the bench all the time.

You are correct with the 6x45 all you need is the barrel. You can use all your stuff for the 5.56 AR 15 providing that is you own that. Of course you'll have to buy 6mm bullets.

 

[Bootknife]

You may want to check out Sharps Rifle Co in 25-45 !

 

[dreadpirate]

You may want to check out Sharps Rifle Co in 25-45 !

And just to add to the list; there is always 6.8 SPC, which has the advantage of performing well out of a 16" barrel but the ammo is expensive. Reloading can mitigate that cost.

With the 6X45, and Sharps, reloading is a must. I see Sharps has dies and once fired brass is available. However - like the 6X45, Sharps is simply resized 223; that's a plus. Also seems to just take 257 bullets; should be a lot of choices.

 

[Mike3888]

The thing I like about the 6X45 is I can use my current mags and a standard AR bolt. Would have to build it, but could build exactly what I want. Not sure where to find reloading data on 6X45; it's not in my Hornady manual, unless I missed it some how.

Hodgdon and Sierra both have data. 6x45 is a nice package. I've killed a few deer with mine. I use it more than any other gun I own. I think bullet choices as far as weight is concerned the 6mm has many. I usually shoot 60 up to 85 grain. Good luck

 

[starmetal]

You can't make that 6.8 case from anything besides the old 30 Rem, but new 30 Rem is hard to find. As mentioned the 6mm has a larger bullet choice.

 

[dreadpirate]

Ok - so I am leaning towards building my own 6.5 upper with a heavy profile 18" Odin Works barrel (comes with bolt, lo pro gas block, gas tube), Spikes upper, Diamondhead V-RS T Modular Handguard 13.5", flash hider. Like $700 (not cheap);still have not 100% decided though. I like this option better than the light weight Alexander Arms 18" upper.

 

[starmetal]

Ok - so I am leaning towards building my own 6.5 upper with a heavy profile 18" Odin Works barrel (comes with bolt, lo pro gas block, gas tube), Spikes upper, Diamondhead V-RS T Modular Handguard 13.5", flash hider. Like $700 (not cheap);still have not 100% decided though. I like this option better than the light weight Alexander Arms 18" upper.

My 6.5 Grendel barrel, 6x45 barrel, and my AR 10 7.62 NATO barrel all take the .875 gas block. Now that's what I call a heavy profile barrel.

The difference between a top quality barrel and those that aren't is they are one holers, not just sub MOA. What are your plans specific for this rifle? Deer hunting, which sub MOA is great. Long range varmint? Hmmm sub MOA just ok for that. Most the guys I know that got the top dollar barrels can shoot 1/2 inch at 300 yards. If you have a really good trigger and big enough quality scope the 6.5 Grendel makes it easy for you to shoot like that.

If that $700 bought you what you said you have a lot of dollars to go for the rest of the rifle parts.

Have fun building and enjoy shooting it.

 

[DJones2987]

I'm a 6.8 SPC guy. Very pleased with mine.

 

[Biggfoot44]

OP needs think thru and prioritize his check list of desireable traits . 500yd plus extreme accuracy with hunting capability is a specialized thing, The rest of the list can be met with pretty much any of the above, plus more.

If the looong range part is the controling factor, then Grendel, or one of the various 6mm large case wildcats . But that will be overkill for plinking and 2 and 3 gun stuff .

 

[starmetal]

OP needs think thru and prioritize his check list of desireable traits . 500yd plus extreme accuracy with hunting capability is a specialized thing, The rest of the list can be met with pretty much any of the above, plus more.

If the looong range part is the controling factor, then Grendel, or one of the various 6mm large case wildcats . But that will be overkill for plinking and 2 and 3 gun stuff .

To build that long range 6.5 Grendel the weight will be about the same as a long range AR 10 in 6.5 Creedmoor which is a heck of a lot more cartridge. Unless the OP is loaded with cash, he should study all this long and hard before plunking down his hard earned cash.

 

[dreadpirate]

For me, the 500 plus yard range is not as attractive as the fact that the 6.5 does well with cross wind.

 

[dreadpirate]

Thanks for all the info - will have to do more reading and thinking.