HPRB September 13, 2016 Meeting Thread

[Stoveman]

No, this is the definition of Maryland. This act has GOT to get cleaned up. I have to wonder if the Attention Demanding Moms' attendance made the LD folks more amenable to playing Let's Make a Deal in the hallway. Hmmm...

A little bit of clarity, these "hallway" deals actually don't take place in the hallway.

I was there early today and when I got there the MSP troopers were all inside the meeting room and there was nobody there that I didn't recognize and certainly nobody was consulting with the MSP and then suddenly left.

More likely these are resolved in the day or days leading up to the actual meetings, it's just announced at the meetings. The lone Mom Demanding Some Action showed up after the meeting started, hardly a force that makes the MSP suddenly make a call to action.

And yes, I would rather see hearings and testimony and evidence presented by the applicants, but at least they got their permits.

 

[Cookie_Crispp]

So, with all this free time the HPRB can catch up on its administrative shortfalls, right?

Or, in a more blunt and less sarcastic way: I was unable to attend, but was the HPRB able to at least work on its administrative backlogs?

 

[redeemed.man]

A little bit of clarity, these "hallway" deals actually don't take place in the hallway.

I was there early today and when I got there the MSP troopers were all inside the meeting room and there was nobody there that I didn't recognize and certainly nobody was consulting with the MSP and then suddenly left.

More likely these are resolved in the day or days leading up to the actual meetings, it's just announced at the meetings. The lone Mom Demanding Some Action showed up after the meeting started, hardly a force that makes the MSP suddenly make a call to action.

And yes, I would rather see hearings and testimony and evidence presented by the applicants, but at least they got their permits.

I agree that it is a nice change to see a few permits being issued however this deal making is a major problem. Whether the last minute deal making is intentional on MSP's part or just coincidental it "short circuits" the effectiveness, scheduling, and efficiency of the HPRB "civilian oversight organization". Not only does it delay permit issuance significantly but it destroys confidence in the process of a supposedly independent review board who now shows up for meetings and many of the issues have been decided at the last minute without their input. All of the folks in line for hearings that could have moved up to be heard that week can't be moved on such short notice because the deals are being cut so late in the game. At this pace the board will be lucky to even have a small chance to overturn MSP 100 times during Hogan's entire term. Combine this with the fact that clearly prohibited people are being given hearings and you have a process that remains extremely unfavorable to the every day law abiding citizen. Perhaps the law entitles the prohibited persons to hearings, if that is the case they can be given hearings after the law abiding folks since the board will not have the authority to overturn their prohibited status anyway.

This is a process that has a long way to go before it can be considered functional. While the efforts of the chairman to correct issues are appreciated by us all, the deck remains stacked against the law abiding citizens of Maryland.

 

[Stoveman]

I agree that it is a nice change to see a few permits being issued however this deal making is a major problem. Whether the last minute deal making is intentional on MSP's part or just coincidental it "short circuits" the effectiveness, scheduling, and efficiency of the HPRB "civilian oversight organization". Not only does it delay permit issuance significantly but it destroys confidence in the process of a supposedly independent review board who now shows up for meetings and many of the issues have been decided at the last minute without their input. All of the folks in line for hearings that could have moved up to be heard that week can't be moved on such short notice because the deals are being cut so late in the game. At this pace the board will be lucky to even have a small chance to overturn MSP 100 times during Hogan's entire term. Combine this with the fact that clearly prohibited people are being given hearings and you have a process that remains extremely unfavorable to the every day law abiding citizen. Perhaps the law entitles the prohibited persons to hearings, if that is the case they can be given hearings after the law abiding folks since the board will not have the authority to overturn their prohibited status anyway.

This is a process that has a long way to go before it can be considered functional. While the efforts of the chairman to correct issues are appreciated by us all, the deck remains stacked against the law abiding citizens of Maryland.

Well said, totally agree.

 

[mxrider]

So, with all this free time the HPRB can catch up on its administrative shortfalls, right?

Or, in a more blunt and less sarcastic way: I was unable to attend, but was the HPRB able to at least work on its administrative backlogs?

Unfortunately, they are not able to catch up on their administrative backlog because they have no dedicated administrative assistant. Ms. Harris was conducting all of the scheduling for the hearings. She is no longer affiliated with the HPRB. The chairman has been asking/begging for a new admin asst. with no luck.

 

[mxrider]

A little bit of clarity, these "hallway" deals actually don't take place in the hallway.

I was there early today and when I got there the MSP troopers were all inside the meeting room and there was nobody there that I didn't recognize and certainly nobody was consulting with the MSP and then suddenly left.

More likely these are resolved in the day or days leading up to the actual meetings, it's just announced at the meetings. The lone Mom Demanding Some Action showed up after the meeting started, hardly a force that makes the MSP suddenly make a call to action.

And yes, I would rather see hearings and testimony and evidence presented by the applicants, but at least they got their permits.

I am quite curious as to how this "new information" is actually getting to the MSP. That would help determine what types of questions should be asked about the process. Without that determination, we don't know if this is something that could have been cleared up weeks earlier or if it would have needed to wait until the day of the scheduled hearing.

With regards to the "no light being shined" for these, I truly don't care how it is happening. People are getting permits. That's the main focus. If the MSP had all of the information from the beginning by the applicant, the hearings would never have been needed.

 

[redeemed.man]

I am quite curious as to how this "new information" is actually getting to the MSP. That would help determine what types of questions should be asked about the process. Without that determination, we don't know if this is something that could have been cleared up weeks earlier or if it would have needed to wait until the day of the scheduled hearing.

With regards to the "no light being shined" for these, I truly don't care how it is happening. People are getting permits. That's the main focus. If the MSP had all of the information from the beginning by the applicant, the hearings would never have been needed.

That assumes they would have issued a permit if they had all the information from the beginning. I'm not quite sure that that assumption is correct. The pressure from the HPRB could be the reason that they are issuing permits that they normally would not have issued. Two people that are identically situated could have completely different results if one chooses not to appeal to the HPRB. This is not to say that the case must be heard by the HPRB just simply that the appeal must be made so that it forces action on the part of MSP.

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[Biggfoot44]

NYPD playbook.

 

[montoya32]

That assumes they would have issued a permit if they had all the information from the beginning. I'm not quite sure that that assumption is correct. The pressure from the HPRB could be the reason that they are issuing permits that they normally would not have issued. Two people that are identically situated could have completely different results if one chooses not to appeal to the HPRB. This is not to say that the case must be heard by the HPRB just simply that the appeal must be made so that it forces action on the part of MSP.

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I agree. The MSP issues permits when they want. Two people can submit identical application, but 1. The MSP addresses each applicant individually, which is good and bad. 2. The MSP keeps such poor records that they might not remember or personnel could have changed and they reject the new applicant.

MSP absolutely adjusts its performance depending on how much pressure is put on them. This is the problem with the current law and policy.


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[mxrider]

As I stated, without knowing all of the details, it is difficult to come to any conclusion.

 

[Gambler]

It was my first visit to an HPRB meeting last night, and it certainly wasn't what I expected it would be. I found it a little comical, but mostly sad. Nobody seemed to know who was in charge of handling the small task of communicating with the permit applicants. They said that Ms Harris sent out letters in May to all of the permit applicants scheduled for a hearing this year. As of a few weeks ago, the location of the rest of those meetings (and also some dates) are wrong since they changed the location. As far as I could tell, NOBODY bothered to notify any of those applicants to the location change. Who has the power to grant them an assistant? How long could sending out correction letters take? A day? They can't find somebody with a day to spare? Sad.

 

[swinokur]

Mine as well. I wasn't impressed. After the excuses for Mr. Neverdon not doing his job, I commented to Rack and Roll and Deep Lurker that the entire process looked like a clown car.

pathetic but it seems intentional sometimes.

 

[Rack&Roll]

The DemocRats who set up this disgraceful, elitist, Jim Crow, Guns For White People Only should be ashamed of themselves, but they are either dead, or delighted.

 

[montoya32]

The DemocRats who set up this disgraceful, elitist, Jim Crow, Guns For White People Only should be ashamed of themselves, but they are either dead, or delighted.

 

[CypherPunk]

I suggested months ago they play circus music during breaks.


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[montoya32]

I suggested months ago they play circus music during breaks.


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I honestly feel bad for the chairman. He is doing the best he can with what he has, but getting answers, correct information and timely responses is nearly impossible. There are things that seem obvious, but if he is inquiring about things and being told "no", then what is he to do. I think the board as a whole has a few things wrong with how they incorporate the OMA, MSP SOPs, the actual law, and the HPRB SOPs(which they can change as they please). The least of these are the MSP SOPs.

 

[swinokur]

yup. clown car

 

[Stoveman]

The issue of applicants not showing up has always vexed me. Who in their right mind after going through this much ******** would not then show up for their hearing?


After last night I'm starting to think it may not be the applicants who are at fault.


Last night's meeting was what clown's watch, truly a clown show's clown show and a perfect example of state government bureaucracy inefficiency and waste. What an insult to those who attended, the board and the MSP troopers.

 

[rambling_one]

The issue of applicants not showing up has always vexed me. Who in their right mind after going through this much ******** would not then show up for their hearing?


After last night I'm starting to think it may not be the applicants who are at fault.


Last night's meeting was what clown's watch, truly a clown show's clown show and a perfect example of state government bureaucracy inefficiency and waste. What an insult to those who attended, the board and the MSP troopers.

Hmm, and here I was feeling guilty having missed the hearing in favor of spending the entire day in VA and legally carrying all the while.

 

[swinokur]

And yet Mr. Neverdon still has a job.