VZ-58 vs AKM Recoil

[ericoak]

I put a beaver barf stock on my VZ-2008 and shot it back to back against my AKM. The recoil from the VZ felt way more stout and felt like I was getting kicked in the face each time. Fired the AKM right after and it was significantly more pleasurable to shoot. It felt like I was firing different caliber. I though the next stock would be more comfortable but it still was t very comfortable to shoot.

 

[Combloc]

I've never noticed this. I find them to be about identical. Interesting.

 

[Wayne1one]

I've never noticed this. I find them to be about identical. Interesting.

This, did you have any muzzle devices installed? Which VZ stock?

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[ericoak]

Both had slant breaks. Beaver barf fixed stock.

I had a rookie shooter and after 5 rounds from the VZ when I said the Ak shot the same round he didn't even want to try it. I convinced him too and he remarked how much more comfortable it was. I tried and agreed, I also didn't feel like shooting any more of the VZ. The smack to my cheek felt like 12GA slugs kick from my 870.

 

[Melnic]

Is your Vz setup is lighter?

Main causes of uncomfortable recoil I know of are:
Firearm weight (more = less felt recoil)
Muzzle brake
Cartridge load
Gas/piston system

Shape of the stock near the cheek can have an impact too.

 

[smdub]

You going to the AGC shoot Sat?

 

[ericoak]

You going to the AGC shoot Sat?

Nope, maybe end of month or 1st of next month.

 

[rob-cubed]

I haven't really noticed a difference. The AK has a pretty massive gas piston/bolt carrier while the VZ relies a lot on springs. Could be your springs are weak?

But recoil can be changed by perception, particularly the muzzle blast/sound directed back at the shooter.

Funny how little things like perception of trigger weight can depend on LOP and how the rifle fits the shooter.

 

[friendlyhippo]

what is a "beaver barf" stock?

 

[bbrown]

The standard fixed stock for the VZ-58 looks like chips of wood embedded in a reddish resin, hence the term 'beaver barf'.

 

[Digby]

I put a beaver barf stock on my VZ-2008 and shot it back to back against my AKM. The recoil from the VZ felt way more stout and felt like I was getting kicked in the face each time. Fired the AKM right after and it was significantly more pleasurable to shoot. It felt like I was firing different caliber. I though the next stock would be more comfortable but it still was t very comfortable to shoot.

My experience is exactly the same as yours. I have a CzechPoint VZ 58 with the bakelite stock and no muzzle device and the recoil is noticeably greater than any of my 7.62 AKs. With a good tight cheek weld, you feel it most in the face rather than in the shoulder. I attribute it to the light weight of the VZ 58, which is over a pound lighter than an AK. I purchased a CzechPoint compensator and will try it next time I take it out to the range. Although, I'm not optimistic it's going to help much. In the end, it's still only a 7.62x39 so even though the felt recoil is greater with the VZ than the AK IMHO, it's very manageable. It just takes getting used to.

 

[smdub]

VZ-2008

CzechPoint VZ 58 ... and no muzzle device

We are dealing w/ at least 3 different rifle variants. The 2008s and the 58s w/ no muzzle devices have non-original 16" barrels. I have both an old grey czechpoint vz58 w/ the orig ~15" barrel and pinned slant brake to get it to 16" and a vz2008. Last time I shot the 2008 w/ folder it bruised my cheek - it IS a hard metal rod at a slight angle after all. Funny thing is I never remember my real 58 doing that and its also a folder. I also have some real VZ kits w/ orig barrels. I'll dig everything out this weekend (if I can remember!) to compare spring rates and gas port sizes.

 

[ericoak]

We are dealing w/ at least 3 different rifle variants. The 2008s and the 58s w/ no muzzle devices have non-original 16" barrels. I have both an old grey czechpoint vz58 w/ the orig ~15" barrel and pinned slant brake to get it to 16" and a vz2008. Last time I shot the 2008 w/ folder it bruised my cheek - it IS a hard metal rod at a slight angle after all. Funny thing is I never remember my real 58 doing that and its also a folder. I also have some real VZ kits w/ orig barrels. I'll dig everything out this weekend (if I can remember!) to compare spring rates and gas port sizes.

I thought the VZ-2008 were VZ-58 parts kits with new US barrels (Green Mountain I think)?

I agree I thought it was the metal stock and I was excited to get the fixed stock on so that it felt and shot like an AKM. It might be the geometry of the stock, but I find .308 battle rifles way more comfortable to shoot off the bench.

 

[smdub]

I thought the VZ-2008 were VZ-58 parts kits with new US barrels (Green Mountain I think)?

Likely but the point I was trying to make was the barrel is not an orig barrel. So who knows what gas port size Century had the manufacturer drill for them. Or even Czechpoint now that they are doing the same (using someones 16" bbls so they don't have to pin a muzzle device.)

 

[ericoak]

Likely but the point I was trying to make was the barrel is not an orig barrel. So who knows what gas port size Century had the manufacturer drill for them. Or even Czechpoint now that they are doing the same (using someones 16" bbls so they don't have to pin a muzzle device.)

Ah that makes a lot of sense, I thought you were referring to the springs.

Now that I think about it, it usually hangs up clambering the first round on a full magazine, but it takes some force to open the bolt so I didn't think it was the springs.

 

[alucard0822]

The recoil is sharper in general, but if it's that much heavier try a new spring, some ammo seems to cycle the action more violently too, where the AK feels much more consistent

 

[CodeWarrior1241]

I have a Czechpoint vz58 with the welded barrel extension, and my perception is completely the reverse - recoil seemed much more manageable than the stock M70 underfolder my buddy had... My vz58 has all the beaverbarf removed though, replaced with FAB polymer and plastic hinged sidefolder stock. The AK had a side mount SPARC red dot while I same one on top of the grip, I think the weight is about the same for both platforms.


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[ericoak]

I have a Czechpoint vz58 with the welded barrel extension, and my perception is completely the reverse - recoil seemed much more manageable than the stock M70 underfolder my buddy had... My vz58 has all the beaverbarf removed though, replaced with FAB polymer and plastic hinged sidefolder stock. The AK had a side mount SPARC red dot while I same one on top of the grip, I think the weight is about the same for both platforms.


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Well Ak underfolder does suck. Made for a 9mm SMG not a rifle round.

 

[bkuether]

Eric,

The VZ does have a pretty sharp kick to it. With the folder it was worse. I too put the beaver barf stock on, and I think that helped distribute the kick better on my shoulder but it was still busting me in the face. I ended up putting a better brake on it, and also I got the rubber butt pad. That helped as well.

It is now much more manageable. I cannot speak to how it shoots vs. an AKM, I don't own one. But the VZ is still the most "liveliest" gun in the safe. With the upgrades I just mentioned, not as much anymore.....

Also for anyone that doesn't know what "Beaver Barf" is, enclosed is a photo of mine.......

 

[Sirex]

I have a VZ2008 that was in the full beaver barf stock, with a CNC Warrior brake, and a Saiga with wood stock and 74 type brake, and I found the recoil much more subdued with the VZ2008. The recoil seems significantly harsher on my Saiga. Just my perception.